Director of Women's Chess

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:16 pm

Cathy Chua wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:38 pm
Re 'Appointment of ECF Manager of Female Social Media – English Chess Federation': I'm incensed at the ideas that seem to be behind this. I don't want a female speaking for me because I'm female. I don't want somebody who says ‘I am looking forward to ...being able to support and encourage females to communicate, and bring their voices, to raise the profile of female chess.' What would raise the profile of women's chess is for women to play better. Not create a segregated community with some notion of equality for inferior standard. I loathe the idea that I can't play chess as a person. I loathe the idea that somebody is going to be speaking for 'females' and by definition that's going to include me.
Undoubtedly you speak for some women when you say this.

But not all.
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Tim Harding
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Tim Harding » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:40 pm

Julie Denning wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:15 am
There were not separate competitions as such for women's teams at Radebeul. They were mixed in with the gender-open teams. However, separate prizes were awarded to women's only teams. In the 65+ competition we only had one all-women team. That was from Mongolia, and they were awarded a prize as Women's champions.
Glad to see they got something; Ireland played them. It was in the regulations that the best placed women's team in each section would win a title.

There would have been separate women's competitions if ten teams had entered the same age category. They announce this every year but it has not happened yet and it's probably not likely to in the foreseeable future. In the 50+ three of the five women's teams were German.

Maybe if there are more like Julie then England could have a 65+ women's team next time?
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Cathy Chua
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Cathy Chua » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:30 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:16 pm
Cathy Chua wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:38 pm
Re 'Appointment of ECF Manager of Female Social Media – English Chess Federation': I'm incensed at the ideas that seem to be behind this. I don't want a female speaking for me because I'm female. I don't want somebody who says ‘I am looking forward to ...being able to support and encourage females to communicate, and bring their voices, to raise the profile of female chess.' What would raise the profile of women's chess is for women to play better. Not create a segregated community with some notion of equality for inferior standard. I loathe the idea that I can't play chess as a person. I loathe the idea that somebody is going to be speaking for 'females' and by definition that's going to include me.
Undoubtedly you speak for some women when you say this.

But not all.
True. There are evidently many women who have no meaningful interest in raising the standard of their play and would prefer to be segregated whilst claiming that playing in segregated weak competition should nonetheless permit them to talk of equality.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Well if you don't agree with women only competitions, don't take part in them I suppose......

PS googlng the name "Cathy Chua" reveals a bridge player most prominently - is that you?
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:53 am

"PS googlng the name "Cathy Chua" reveals a bridge player most prominently"

Even if it is she, she is entitled to have her opinion. Cathy Chua is not the only female player to feels like this. One described women's only tournaments as "women's ghetto chess"!

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JustinHorton
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:58 am

Although it's not clear who is actually arguing for women's chess to be cordoned off in that way
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:32 pm

There are very , very few, if any, tournaments open only to men. Thus describing women's events as cordoned off is inaccurate. Contiguous would be better,
Having separate women's tournaments and titles seems to encourage more chess activity, especially internationally. Thus the Olympiads have a women's section only slightly smaller than the open. You could have the Olympiad consist of teams of 8, 4 men and 4 women. They would play in order of playing strength. Some countries would be unable to raise such a team. Occasionally a federation has sent only a women's team.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:05 pm

Sort of tangentially related, as a women-only network appoints a male chair, with similar misgivings and some explanations:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45083594

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:22 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:53 am
"PS googlng the name "Cathy Chua" reveals a bridge player most prominently"

Even if it is she, she is entitled to have her opinion. Cathy Chua is not the only female player to feels like this. One described women's only tournaments as "women's ghetto chess"!
Strange reaction, I never said she wasn't and am genuinely interested to know if it is the same person.
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:48 pm

"Strange reaction"

No. Maybe I misjudged the tone of what you said.

Obviously some women want to play women's only events, some don't. Some seniors want to play senior events, some don't. (Over 30 % of the competitors in the British Championship could have played in a Senior event!) Some juniors want to play junior events, some don't. Some lower-rated players avoid "Opens"... well I hope everybody has got the analogy by now. It is really primarily in women's chess, that people are particularly eager to force them into one category. For the avoidance of any doubt, I am not accusing anyone here of that (but I guess that will be ignored).

We need to encourage participation in chess and if people want to play only certain categories of events, great - they're still playing. Let them do that. You even get it in clubs, where people don't want to play serious games, just play friendlies. Once you start bullying players in any category, they tend to lose interest. I hate to go into buzzword mode, but we need a safe environment so that people are eager to play chess, whoever they are.

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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:26 am

On the ECF website today:

"The ECF has doubled the prize fund available for the 2018 English Women’s Championship, which will be held later this summer – this has increased from £1000 to £2000.
Speaking about the increase, Chris Fegan, ECF Director of Women’s Chess said,
‘I am delighted that I have been able to find extra money for the prize fund for the English Women’s Championship 2018. This will hopefully act as an extra incentive to more women to enter. This new money quickly follows the massive increase in funds which were allocated for women at the 2018 British Championships in Hull, and shows that the ECF is putting its money where its mouth is in supporting women’s chess in England.’"

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:48 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:26 am
On the ECF website today:

"The ECF has doubled the prize fund available for the 2018 English Women’s Championship, which will be held later this summer – this has increased from £1000 to £2000.
I still get the impression it's designed as an elite event rather than one that attempts to attract the entire potential field of ECF female players. There's little incentive for players in the rating range of 1000 to 1600 to enter, or unrated players with modest ECF grades for example.

Chris Rice
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:05 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:48 am
Chris Rice wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:26 am
On the ECF website today:

"The ECF has doubled the prize fund available for the 2018 English Women’s Championship, which will be held later this summer – this has increased from £1000 to £2000.
I still get the impression it's designed as an elite event rather than one that attempts to attract the entire potential field of ECF female players. There's little incentive for players in the rating range of 1000 to 1600 to enter, or unrated players with modest ECF grades for example.
I think it was designed as an elite event too. If that is so, then its not doing so well as so far, according to the entries, only two of the current top 30 active English women players have entered.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:36 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:48 am

I still get the impression it's designed as an elite event rather than one that attempts to attract the entire potential field of ECF female players. There's little incentive for players in the rating range of 1000 to 1600 to enter, or unrated players with modest ECF grades for example.
The incentive for lower graded women might be that they can attend and enjoy playing chess in a female only environment. A glance at the event information shows that the entry fee is negligible and the accommodation affordable so even without the increased prize fund there is no reason for female players not to support it.

One minor nit pick (albeit about an event that has nothing to do with me). The event falls on the last weekend of the school holidays which might be a disincentive to players who work in education or have school age children - they might want to rest prior to being pitched into what will be a busy week. But I appreciate that it depends when the ECF can negotiate a hotel deal.
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Director of Women's Chess

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:38 am

One (rhetorical) question I meant to post above. If the ECF were to reintroduce a separate Ladies championship as part of the British championship (similar to the seniors and obviously female players who qualified for the championship or wished to play in another event so could do so) would it attract many more unique entrants?
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