English Chess Forum

Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:37 pm

I'm all for increasing the number of female chess players but are overall player numbers in this country so healthy that we can afford to turn away men and (in particular) boys?

I wasn't aware that this was happening, can you help us out here?

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:52 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:37 pm

I'm all for increasing the number of female chess players but are overall player numbers in this country so healthy that we can afford to turn away men and (in particular) boys?

I wasn't aware that this was happening, can you help us out here?

At this stage I don't think there are specific examples of people being `turned away`. However if we start imposing quotas such as (for example) a junior chess club with twenty places has to be at least a third female which means that boys wanting to join are turned away while some of the girls places are unfilled - I appreciate that this is relatively unlikely but it's possible. Or if we go down the funding and grants route and initiatives that are attracting new players are denied vital funding simply because only males have so far opted to take part?

So you're complaining about a non-existent situation, yes? And your response to the problem of the vast under-representation of women and girls in chess is to invent scenarios about boys being turned away?

This is a fantastic thread.

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:19 am

So you're complaining about a non-existent situation, yes? And your response to the problem of the vast under-representation of women and girls in chess is to invent scenarios about boys being turned away?

This is a fantastic thread.

It's more an observation rather than a complaint. My point is that we are not in a strong position with regard to attracting new players generally.

Nick,
In my opinion the discrepancy in ratings between males and female is primarily due to the demographics that 90% of players in England are males.
Again, in my opinion, more males would play chess if more females played.
In Bridge the imbalance tends to be he other way. Even so, the top players tend to be men.
It is often claimed that chess is popular among women in Georgia because of the success of Nona Gaprindashvili and, to a lesser extent, of Maia Chiburdanidze.
The top 100 active Georgian men go to 1991 (Eng 2249). Women top 100 1244 of whom 33 are 2000+ (Eng 1006, but only 91 such players). When we look at all players, it goes to 2281 for men (Eng 2340) and 1978 for women to be in the top 100. Eng Only 3 women aspire to the dizzy heights of the top 100 men, either active or all.


It was said that looking in the playground at Oakham School, mixed, you can observe the following: That little boys tended to play competitive games and little girls cooperative ones. If this is true generally, and the teachers and parents don't interfere in this process; then it suggests males are more competitive than females.

Of course, it has also been said that 'he who generalises generally lies'.

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:19 am

the problem of the vast under-representation of women and girls in chess

Why do you think it a problem, Justin?

Michael Farthing wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:05 pm

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:19 am

the problem of the vast under-representation of women and girls in chess

Why do you think it a problem, Justin?

Another twist to the thread

England five up at half-time and yet this thread is so fantastic it's outperforming them

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:01 pm

England five up at half-time and yet this thread is so fantastic it's outperforming them

The point I'm making (admittedly not very well) is that increasing women's chess needs to be part of a wider strategy to solve the demographic problem.

Perhaps you could tell us what initiatives you have attempted personally.

Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:45 pm

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:01 pm

England five up at half-time and yet this thread is so fantastic it's outperforming them

The point I'm making (admittedly not very well) is that increasing women's chess needs to be part of a wider strategy to solve the demographic problem.

Why does it "need" to be?

Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:45 pm

Perhaps you could tell us what initiatives you have attempted personally.

Perhaps we could avoid using this tired rhetorical device. Someone does not actually have to have attempted initiatives themselves in order to have a worthwhile opinion on initiatives set up by other people.

IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:29 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:45 pm

Perhaps you could tell us what initiatives you have attempted personally.

Perhaps we could avoid using this tired rhetorical device. Someone does not actually have to have attempted initiatives themselves in order to have a worthwhile opinion on initiatives set up by other people.

I'm sorry Jack but more people ought to use it. One factor in the precarious situation of English chess is a shortage of people willing to actually step up and do anything. Of course opinions should be welcome but I have a bit of an issue with people who see it as the job of others to volunteer and their role to criticise from the sidelines.

Having said that I don't want to start a long debate about on the subject.

However, as you're being criticised here for what you're saying rather than what you're doing, the objection is a specious one.

On top of that, what do you imagine a discussion board is for, if not to discuss?

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:47 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:45 pm

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:01 pm

England five up at half-time and yet this thread is so fantastic it's outperforming them

The point I'm making (admittedly not very well) is that increasing women's chess needs to be part of a wider strategy to solve the demographic problem.

Why does it "need" to be?

In terms of the bigger picture, yes. Obviously individuals are free to make their own contribution in anyway they see fit. For the record I would support the formation of women only chess clubs (on the grounds that the men would almost certainly have somewhere else to go). My one push back is that the age group we're failing to attract generally are teenagers and young adults so that has to be tackled before the gender disparity is dealt with in detail. But again it's up to individuals to do their own thing.

It's well worth noting that Casual Chess is not a women's only organisation; they just want to focus on women in particular. Which is fine. They could be building a very productive relationship with the ECF right now to the benefit of everybody. Instead some strident misunderstanding on their part has led to backs being put up left right and centre.

JustinHorton wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:38 am

However, as you're being criticised here for what you're saying rather than what you're doing, the objection is a specious one.

On top of that, what do you imagine a discussion board is for, if not to discuss?

Your post crossed with mine. In terms of what I'm doing; at the end of 2016 I set up a club in Harrogate specifically for students age 12-18. After a sluggish start I've now got ten players on the books (having had eighteen different individuals through the door). It may not sound like a lot but when you consider that the main club locally only has roughly forty members, if you add my players on to those it's quite a significant percentage increase. So far all have been boys but girls would be very welcome.

There's a lot more I would like to do in terms of moving chess away from the rather stuffy atmosphere of the local club. Unfortunately I'm hemmed in by limited time, funds and the fact that I seem to be a one man band against a deadweight of non volunteers locally.

So that's what I do. I know it's only a trickle compared to the vast lakes of Pein, Truran, Holowczak, Hewitt etc. I just wish I could do more.