2019 British

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:01 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:49 pm
I suppose we have to wait until the AGM?
I'm not sure when Hull was announced, but it may have been after the 2017 AGM. If there's a contested election needed for Home Director, the candidates could be asked whether they would commit to announcing dates and places for the British no later than the end of the previous one. The lack of apology for this year's and last year's delays seems to suggest that late announcement has become a deliberate policy.

J T Melsom
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Re: 2019 British

Post by J T Melsom » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:04 pm

I think some posters are wilfully neglecting key points here, namely that the ECF is run by volunteers who are already few in number and overworked, that the organisation of the annual congress is a considerable under-taking, and that even with sponsorship which cannot be guaranteed from one year to the next ,the ECF exists on a shoe-string and cannot readily compete for venues in the way it would like. So nobody would disagree that early notice of a venue would be nice, but if there is no venue to announce then there can't be an announcement. I suspect there are those who will always find fault and rarely manage a word of praise, so I don't think anybody is owed an apology.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:08 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:32 pm
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:10 pm
Why are the British Championships any different?
I've always thought it made sense to market next year's event at this year's. Where else do you get such a large number of potential attendees?

Given that local organisations will up to a point compete to hold the British, why not where possible map out the schedule in advance so as to rotate round the country?

It can also be the case that the best hotel accommodation can get snapped up quickly perhaps up to a year in advance. Those probably intending to play cannot compete for this if they don't know where and when the British is going to be held.
When have any local organisations competed to hold the British? The Hull association did make their pitch to hold the 2018 event but that was an exception (and the choice of location was bitterly resisted in some quarters). There was the case six years ago of an offer being made to hold the next championships in Plymouth (after Torquay had already been confirmed) but I believe that was a private sponsor rather than a local association.

In any case do you not think that the ECF are already aware of the points you make and if it had been possible to confirm the 2019 venue at Hull they would have done so?

Nominations are open for a Director of Home Chess to succeed Alex Holowczak. Given that you could clearly do the job so much better than anybody else would you like me to arrange for the Yorkshire CA to nominate you? I'm half tempted to do it anyway, just to see how fast you run in the opposite direction.
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:11 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:01 pm
Nick Grey wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:49 pm
I suppose we have to wait until the AGM?
I'm not sure when Hull was announced, but it may have been after the 2017 AGM. If there's a contested election needed for Home Director, the candidates could be asked whether they would commit to announcing dates and places for the British no later than the end of the previous one. The lack of apology for this year's and last year's delays seems to suggest that late announcement has become a deliberate policy.
This garbage crossed with my last post. I accept that the venue for the forthcoming year has been known during the current championship until recently but there is no statutory requirement for the ECF to do so (so therefore nothing to apologise for). The point that finding an affordable venue gets harder and harder every year seems completely lost on you.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:14 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:08 pm
When have any local organisations competed to hold the British?
Organisers in Bournemouth had an ambition for some years to hold the British there, but had to join a queue, eventually being awarded it in 2016.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:17 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:32 pm
Where else do you get such a large number of potential attendees?
Well, it's 2018. If you announce where a venue is and what the dates are, people are capable of using Google to find out travel arrangements, hotel arrangements, and so on. You don't need a specialist marketing stand like you used to. People know there will be a British Championships from one year to the next, so it's not like it's going to be a major surprise when it suddenly appears.
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:32 pm
Given that local organisations will up to a point compete to hold the British, why not where possible map out the schedule in advance so as to rotate round the country?
I told Stewart Reuben that I was going to do just this, and have a rotation around venues we used in the past. He laughed, and said he came up with the idea in 1983, or 1987, or whatever year it was. He said that the idea wouldn't work based on his experience. How right he was.
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:32 pm
It can also be the case that the best hotel accommodation can get snapped up quickly perhaps up to a year in advance. Those probably intending to play cannot compete for this if they don't know where and when the British is going to be held.
Do you think? It might be generational, but I expect there are relatively few people who have booked next year's summer holiday yet. I'm getting emails from people replying to me about other things who are apologising for not replying sooner, because they have only just come back off this year's summer holiday.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:27 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:17 pm
Do you think? It might be generational, but I expect there are relatively few people who have booked next year's summer holiday yet.
It's not unknown for people to book their accommodation for the WECU Congress a year in advance. That's easy, because it's always in Exmouth and always at Easter. But they do it to get their favourite hotels, Easter in principle being a busy holiday period.

I've never been convinced that the booking sites aren't fibbing to ratchet up demand and early bookings, but if you check for Brighton for the last July weekend of 2019 and the following week in August, some hotels are already showing as fully booked.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:33 pm

Nick > I suppose we have to wait until the AGM?<
What makes you think that? The Board has always decided these matters on the advice of the director. It is true that the new director will not have been appointed, but why shouldn't the current director (Alex) complete his duties?

Some of the people who come to the British site don't even play. I met a couple this year.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:44 am

"In any case do you not think that the ECF are already aware of the points you make and if it had been possible to confirm the 2019 venue at Hull they would have done so?"

You would have thought so, but I got the impression (maybe wrongly) last year, when I was deferring my entry, I asked if the next venue were known and was told it would be announced later. That seemed to mean it was known and they weren't announcing it. But of course it could have meant, "We think we know but details have to be confirmed".

However, we do know that there will be some sort of tournament and it will be held either in July and August, or just August.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:22 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:44 am
However, we do know that there will be some sort of tournament and it will be held either in July and August, or just August.
Thanet is taking what's probably only a small risk by announcing its dates for 2019 in advance of knowing exactly when the British is going to be.

Nick Burrows
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:58 pm

I would like to propose to simply hold the British each and every year in Sheffield...at the Crucible.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Michael Farthing » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:13 pm

Nick, this might well win favour if you offer to pay the venue hire costs too? We could even call it the "Nick Burrows British Chess Championships". :-)

[Smiley just to make it clear I'm not being nasty].

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JustinHorton
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Re: 2019 British

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:38 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:35 pm

I doubt Aberystwyth, Bournemouth, Llandudno, Torquay, University of Warwick can be in any way described as Victorian.
Aberystwyth was arguably at its zenith during the Victorian era.
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:17 pm

The 2018/19 World Snooker Tour did not finalise its dates for this season until after the 2018/19 Tour Qualifying School in June. The 2019 PDC World Darts Championship dates were not known when the PDC published the schedule for the 2019 season. The 2019 PGA Tour only announced its schedule on 10th July (the season starts in October 2018). The 2019 Formula One calendar isn't known yet. If these organisations can't get their calendars announced years in advance, with all the logistics that are necessary for those sports to function properly, isn't it asking a bit much for the British Championship venues to be known years in advance?
Without prejudice to the wider argument, all these examples save one appear to relate to a whole season's worth of events rather than one individual championship, rendering the value of the comparison unclear.
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:37 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:38 pm
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:17 pm

The 2018/19 World Snooker Tour did not finalise its dates for this season until after the 2018/19 Tour Qualifying School in June. The 2019 PDC World Darts Championship dates were not known when the PDC published the schedule for the 2019 season. The 2019 PGA Tour only announced its schedule on 10th July (the season starts in October 2018). The 2019 Formula One calendar isn't known yet. If these organisations can't get their calendars announced years in advance, with all the logistics that are necessary for those sports to function properly, isn't it asking a bit much for the British Championship venues to be known years in advance?
Without prejudice to the wider argument, all these examples save one appear to relate to a whole season's worth of events rather than one individual championship, rendering the value of the comparison unclear.
I think I was making the point that the earlier season events were actually quite soon.

For example, the World Snooker Q School was in late May, and the first tournaments were in July. The PDC World Championship dates in December/January were only published in June, shortly before tickets were going on sale once they'd revised the format. The first tournament on the PGA Tour was announced at four months notice. The Australian Grand Prix in 2019 only has provisional dates in March 2019.

The sports just happened to form part of a season wide of events, but my point was more the notice at which individual events within them are announced.

Ian Thompson
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Re: 2019 British

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:18 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:37 pm
For example, the World Snooker Q School was in late May, and the first tournaments were in July. The PDC World Championship dates in December/January were only published in June, shortly before tickets were going on sale once they'd revised the format. The first tournament on the PGA Tour was announced at four months notice. The Australian Grand Prix in 2019 only has provisional dates in March 2019.

The sports just happened to form part of a season wide of events, but my point was more the notice at which individual events within them are announced.
All of these sports are significantly different from the British Chess Championships because they are predominantly, if not exclusively, for professional players. The professional player is likely to be willing to go wherever they are, whenever they are, to earn a living.

The British Chess Championships are for amateurs, bar a very small number of players. Amateurs will be fitting their chess in around work commitments, other family commitments, etc., so knowing dates and venues far in advance will help them do that.

In my case, for example, although I have no interest in playing in the British Championships, I am currently looking at where I might play up to the end of April 2019/early May 2019. Why? Because I usually play in a tournament around Easter and next year that's 19 - 22 April. If I do that again the leave will come out of my 2019/2020 leave allowance (which commences on 6 April 2019). If I do play over Easter I don't really want to be taking the remainder of my 2018/2019 leave in late March (as it's too close to Easter), so I'd want to take it sooner. On the other hand, if I don't play over Easter, I could play towards the end of March/early April. That means it would be really useful to me to know the dates and venues of every tournament that's taking place up to May next year right now.

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