ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.

Is it ok for Malcolm Pein to be the ECFs FIDE Delegate while actively involved in FIDE politics?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:27 pm

Yes, the roles are compatible
4
20%
No, there is a potential conflict of influence
14
70%
Meh, even if it was a problem it wouldn't be big enough to worry about
2
10%
 
Total votes: 20

Paul Cooksey
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ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:27 pm

I wondered what other people thought.

My view is its one of the least disruptive posts to "None of the above" if necessary since the board could find someone else as needed. But I'm not sure if it's a real problem.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:03 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:27 pm
My view is its one of the least disruptive posts to "None of the above" if necessary since the board could find someone else as needed. But I'm not sure if it's a real problem.
If Malcolm becomes a FIDE vice-president, there's the possibility he may stand down from the ECF post or even that of International Director. Perhaps even if he doesn't, he may not feel he can work with a FIDE dominated by Russian political interests.

If enough Council members are irked by the ECF's support for the Makro/Kirsan establishment, that might force a stand down.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:30 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:03 pm
If Malcolm becomes a FIDE vice-president
That can only happen in a Dvorkovich administration. Are you suggesting that he would be one of the President's appointees, or that he would get himself elected - I imagine that either is possible.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:34 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:30 pm
That can only happen in a Dvorkovich administration.
I expect I meant Deputy President. In other words he gets elected as part of the Makro slate.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:34 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:34 pm
I expect I meant Deputy President. In other words he gets elected as part of the Makro slate.
Ah, yes. Deputy President is not just a part of the slate, it is in fact the second most important position within FIDE, from which Makro himself has run the organisation for years. That's why it is so disappointing that Malcolm has been unable to restrain the most egregiously illegal activities of the Makro campaign in its attempts to round up votes.

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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by David Robertson » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:08 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:34 pm
it is so disappointing that Malcolm has been unable to restrain the most egregiously illegal activities of the Makro campaign in its attempts to round up votes
ECF wrote:The Board was of the view that under Mr Makropoulos’ ticket, with Malcolm Pein as Deputy President, FIDE would have a better chance of becoming an independent sports organisation free of political influence
Critically assess these two statements, and evaluate their consequences for the probity of English chess in the coming period. Distinguish, in your analysis, between political influence and egregiously illegal activities, determining whether the ECF is now partner to the latter

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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:14 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:08 pm
Distinguish, in your analysis, between political influence and egregiously illegal activities
Assuming of course that such a distinction is possible
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NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:37 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:14 pm
Assuming of course that such a distinction is possible
I can certainly make this distinction. If it is believed that, following a Dvorkovich victory, the resources of the Kremlin might be deployed to improve the status of international chess events and thereby show Russia in a good light ( as was done with the football World Cup ) then I don't really have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with giving GM and IM titles to selected federations in return for votes. This does no objective good, is in conflict with the FIDE Statutes and is plain wrong.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:04 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:37 pm
I do have a problem with giving GM and IM titles to selected federations in return for votes. This does no objective good, is in conflict with the FIDE Statutes and is plain wrong.
I presume this is the reference
viewtopic.php?t=9765

Is there evidence this was anything other than a chess promotion exercise to the participants in the Arab Chess Championships? Awarding titles as prizes goes back a long way, but the practice does seem to have become more extensive during the long reign of the Kirsan/Makro double act. David Levy in 1969 and Tony Miles in 1974 got their IM titles that way, but in those days there were only a handful of awards each year.

They did cut back here and there as an acceptable score for a title in an all play all can become an easy target if the event is converted to a Swiss.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Roger Lancaster » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:24 pm

I would have thought the answer to this fairly obvious but, even if it weren't, one would want to ask how many hats (Chess magazine, Daily Telegraph, CSC, London Chess Classic, in addition to ECF posts with the prospect of FIDE deputy president) one person can wear at the same time. That's not to denigrate Malcolm but to question whether he could continue to do everything effectively.

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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:31 pm

In case anyone's wondering, Makro is Greece's delegate.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:03 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:24 pm
I would have thought the answer to this fairly obvious but, even if it weren't, one would want to ask how many hats (Chess magazine, Daily Telegraph, CSC, London Chess Classic, in addition to ECF posts with the prospect of FIDE deputy president) one person can wear at the same time. That's not to denigrate Malcolm but to question whether he could continue to do everything effectively.
Of course he cannot, and no one else could.

In this instance, it is his position as Editor of CHESS which has taken a hit.

I have been quite taken aback by the nature of his coverage of the FIDE election in his magazine. No room in the magazine has been given, or it would seem even offered, to either of his opponents in order to allow readers a balanced view. Ideally he should not himself be writing editorials on the matter, given his own personal interests, and should have been asking some one else to do so, with his views appearing separately (besides those of his opponents). Of course we do not expect very high standards of impartiality in the closed world of chess as we might do in the BBC, but the CHESS coverage has probably fallen below even our own quite minimal standards.

Fine, if you are a campaigning politician but not if you are editing a chess magazine aimed at a wide, non-partisan audience.

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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:23 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:03 am
Ideally he should not himself be writing editorials on the matter, given his own personal interests
Quite plausibly, but it's a bit late for people to notice that CHESS editorials are The World According To Malcolm, isn't it?
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:03 am

the CHESS coverage has probably fallen below even our own quite minimal standards.
Oh I dunno. On one view, noticing that controversial events are happening at all is a step up from the usual standard of British chess journalism.
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Brian Towers
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:34 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:03 am
In this instance, it is his position as Editor of CHESS which has taken a hit.

I have been quite taken aback by the nature of his coverage of the FIDE election in his magazine. No room in the magazine has been given, or it would seem even offered, to either of his opponents in order to allow readers a balanced view. Ideally he should not himself be writing editorials on the matter, given his own personal interests, and should have been asking some one else to do so, with his views appearing separately (besides those of his opponents). Of course we do not expect very high standards of impartiality in the closed world of chess as we might do in the BBC, but the CHESS coverage has probably fallen below even our own quite minimal standards.

Fine, if you are a campaigning politician but not if you are editing a chess magazine aimed at a wide, non-partisan audience.
Does the magazine actually make a profit? Or is it the case, as in so much in the world of chess administration, that he is doing us a favour because there is no money in it?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:59 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:23 am
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:03 am
Ideally he should not himself be writing editorials on the matter, given his own personal interests
Quite plausibly, but it's a bit late for people to notice that CHESS editorials are The World According To Malcolm, isn't it?
It is, I suppose. Apparently if you and a select few others don't press the point, then no one else will.

(I still remember reading Malcolm's defence of the 3-1-0 scoring system used in the Classic in his magazine, and thinking that any former editor of Pravda might have been happy with it).
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:03 am

the CHESS coverage has probably fallen below even our own quite minimal standards.
[/quote]

Oh I dunno. On one view, noticing that controversial events are happening at all is a step up from the usual standard of British chess journalism.

[/quote]

Probably you are thinking more of BCM than CHESS here.

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