ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.

Is it ok for Malcolm Pein to be the ECFs FIDE Delegate while actively involved in FIDE politics?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:27 pm

Yes, the roles are compatible
4
20%
No, there is a potential conflict of influence
14
70%
Meh, even if it was a problem it wouldn't be big enough to worry about
2
10%
 
Total votes: 20

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:42 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:30 am
Though in the event, Malcolm supported Paulson and retracted that support four months later on the basis of information that he would seemingly have known all along.
I wonder whether the complete story of the initial Agon deal will ever come to light. Was it some form of shared ownership proposed or Kirsan offering to invest in the World Championship monopoly? There also seemed to be revenue sharing involving Makro and other FIDE officials. It's plausible that Makro vetoed it, suspecting rightly that it would be leaked and make both himself and FIDE look bad.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:01 am

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:30 am

I wondered at first why anyone could possibly "only assume", in the teeth of the evidence, that Nigel had been offered space in CHESS. Then I remembered that when Paulson's presidency of the ECF was at issue, you, Andrew, said that Malcom Pein's view must be all-important. Though in the event, Malcolm supported Paulson and retracted that support four months later on the basis of information that he would seemingly have known all along.
I did indeed say that, although it concerned Andrew Paulson's campaign for the Presidency when he was running against the incumbent Roger Edwards. At that time there were already concerns about Paulson and whether a reasonable successful President should be booted out to make way for him. What I actually said was that `Malcolm Pein''s endorsement would prove pivotal` - given that Malcolm is probably the most influential figure in English chess by any standard a lot might depend on whether he was willing to support Paulson or not. Obviously he supported Paulson who subsequently won by a bigger margin than most people were expecting, although it's not clear whether that made a difference. When Paulson's presidency subsequently proved a disaster Malcolm (like many others) withdrew their support.

I've exchanged some tweets with RDK last night. The basic gist was that he thinks the ECF board should have voted for Short due to (supposed) overwhelming support from ordinary players which include `the wider chess community` and not just ECF direct members. Which is possibly true although a) the FIDE election is (like everything else chess politics related) not the hot topic chess players I know and b) when club and casual players reach a consensus titled players don't like they're told they are clueless idiots who should leave the decision to those it effects.
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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:12 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:01 am
When Paulson's presidency subsequently proved a disaster Malcolm (like many others) withdrew their support.
More accurately, when Paulson turned out to be on the other side in FIDE politics, as opposed to anything that he had actually done in office. And as Jonathan observes above
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:30 am
Malcolm supported Paulson and retracted that support four months later on the basis of information that he would seemingly have known all along.
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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:14 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:01 am
he thinks the ECF board should have voted for Short due to...
The reason he thinks they should have voted for Short is that Short is his mate. Full stop.
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:40 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:14 am
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:01 am
he thinks the ECF board should have voted for Short due to...
The reason he thinks they should have voted for Short is that Short is his mate. Full stop.
I know, I'm not quite that stupid! Perhaps I should have said `the reason he's giving`.
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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:51 am

So why are we concerning ourselves with opinions which we don't even believe?
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:28 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:51 am
So why are we concerning ourselves with opinions which we don't even believe?
Not that I'm making direct comparisons for one minute but for the same reason that Nigel Farage's opinions concern me. He has little actual power but he does have a following.
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NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:06 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:35 am
but those now critical of the ECF Board's decision didn't do anything pre-emptive to anticipate or influence it.
You don't know that. You know only that you did nothing and that whatever others may have done was unsuccessful.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:07 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:06 pm
You don't know that.
If Ray Keene and Steve Giddins did anything, they didn't make it public.

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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:12 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:07 pm
If Ray Keene and Steve Giddins did anything, they didn't make it public.
They are by no means the only ones critical of the ECF's decision. Indeed, if they were I would take that as a resounding endorsement of Makro.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Roger Lancaster » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:57 pm

Ray Keene is perfectly entitled to his opinion of the ECF Board's decision, as are we all. As it happens, but only on balance, I'm inclined to agree with him. Having said that, it's part of any democratic process that - once a governing authority is elected - it will from time to time make decisions with which many, perhaps most, of its electorate disagree. So where I disagree with Ray is in his reaction which might easily be described as hysterical.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: ECF Elections - FIDE Delegate - Poll

Post by Michael Farthing » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:39 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:35 am
Michael Farthing wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:56 am
As you express an interest, Andrew, this direct member representative has not received a single Email about the FIDE elections.
I don't see the ECF Board as having gone out of its way to publicise the FIDE election, possibly because of its own internal divisions, but those now critical of the ECF Board's decision didn't do anything pre-emptive to anticipate or influence it.

Indeed, you didn't Roger.

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