ECF increased membership costs

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Alex Holowczak
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire

Re: ECF increased membership costs

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:08 pm

Hok Yin Stephen Chiu wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:35 pm
J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:31 pm
Well if you want to further diminish the value of the ECF to members by claiming potential arbiters pay their way then ok :) But is the increased number of courses not an ECF initiative or is it an idea of somebody who happens to be a Director? As somebody said in another context with a relatively small number of volunteers ,they wear many hats and its not always clear which hat is in the lead.
I'm confused? Potential arbiters always have had to pay, its £30 to take the Level 1 course?
For the avoidance of doubt, yes, it's £30. But they are designed to be cost netural over a series of them, some gain money, and some lose money. For example, in areas where we get high turnout, they will make a surplus, and in areas where we get a low turnout, we don't. That's deliberate, it means that if we want to run an arbiters' course in a fairly remote location that we don't expect many people to turn up for, we can still run it. Otherwise we'd be forever holding them in big cities.

But there's no money from the membership fees that go into them directly. You could argue that because they're on the ECF website, there are some membership fees going into it in that the webmaster, who is salaried as part of his job in the Office, has to spend time putting the courses on the website to advertise.

J T Melsom
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Re: ECF increased membership costs

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:04 pm

Is it then correct to say that arbiter training is an activity undertaken by the ECF. Or would it happen without the ECF? I accept there is limited cross subsidy, or funding support in the way other activities might receive support. I'm trying to get a much broader picture of what the ECF does, and which wouldn't happen or would happen less easily without the national body, just for those out there who might be moaning about fees etc.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF increased membership costs

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:23 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:04 pm
I'm trying to get a much broader picture of what the ECF does, and which wouldn't happen or would happen less easily without the national body, just for those out there who might be moaning about fees etc.
I think you will find that those doing the moaning have been down the path upon which you are now embarking.
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Alex Holowczak
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire

Re: ECF increased membership costs

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:27 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:04 pm
Is it then correct to say that arbiter training is an activity undertaken by the ECF. Or would it happen without the ECF?
It happened before on an ad hoc basis with the ECF not really in control of it but with lots of people doings things occasionally in an opaque way, and I sorted it out in a way that seems to have been quite warmly received by people new to the system comparing it to the old one. The ECF were only nominally in control of what was going on. So yes, it used to happen without much oversight from the ECF, and it was much poorer than it is now that the ECF are more actively involved.

J T Melsom
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: ECF increased membership costs

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:54 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:23 pm
J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:04 pm
I'm trying to get a much broader picture of what the ECF does, and which wouldn't happen or would happen less easily without the national body, just for those out there who might be moaning about fees etc.
I think you will find that those doing the moaning have been down the path upon which you are now embarking.
Possibly, I remain pro the ECF, so am reminding myself why. Its not a new journey and its at least twenty years since my first ECF/BCF meeting. When I returned the other year in Birmingham there were still some of the old characters still believing the meeting was all about them, and new faces also too fond of their own voices. As a national body its not above criticism and should be scrutinised, but it also deserves a fair bit of praise as well, which many seem unable to give. I've reduced my chess administration because I'm not strong enough to cope with as a many brickbats as before, a more measured approach by critics and more appreciation would ensure others continue in administration and aren't driven away. As I said earlier this year to somebody who was being impossible - be nice to volunteers. Don't suffer incompetence but understand that those people are acting in good faith and be gentle in your rebuke.