ECF Tournament Rules

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Alex Holowczak
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:07 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:53 am
What was the point of the outgoing director responding, then, if his ultimate statement was that he was the outgoing director?
I naively thought that trying to answer your question would be helpful. I shan't make the same mistake in future.

Brian Towers
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Brian Towers » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:22 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:35 am
I think that would be very useful on your part, Brian. Please do it.
There are 4 holes per page which hopefully don't obscure anything too important.
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Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Paul McKeown
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:42 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:22 pm
Paul McKeown wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:35 am
I think that would be very useful on your part, Brian. Please do it.
There are 4 holes per page which hopefully don't obscure anything too important.
ECFTournamentRules2016_01.jpg
ECFTournamentRules2016_02.jpg
ECFTournamentRules2016_03.jpg
ECFTournamentRules2016_04.jpg
Thank you, Brian.

That was a comprehensive and important specification by the ECF, which set many important parameters concerning standard conditions for tournaments that the ECF would grade or send on for FIDE rating, setting out clearly what tournament controllers, arbiters and players could expect of each other and of the ECF.

Would I be right, Brian, that like me, you knew of no stakeholder consultation before or communication after the fact that this valuable specification was butchered by the ECF?

Brian Towers
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Brian Towers » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:45 pm

Paul, it came as a complete surprise. The first I knew about it was this thread. I agree, this specification was very clear and hit the mark on a number of key points. That's why I kept it in my arbiting folder. I particularly don't understand the removal of the ECF default default time from the latest document. A lot of tournament organizers will have missed this with who knows what consequences.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:54 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:45 pm
A lot of tournament organizers will have missed this with who knows what consequences.
I doubt there would be any consequences as there has never been a UK tournament with a zero tolerance default policy.

Brian Towers
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Brian Towers » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:54 pm
Brian Towers wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:45 pm
A lot of tournament organizers will have missed this with who knows what consequences.
I doubt there would be any consequences as there has never been a UK tournament with a zero tolerance default policy.
Which is exactly the point.
Previously the default in place was the ECF's 30 minutes. Now suppose you and I are paired in a tournament which hasn't declared a sensible default time, because why would you?, and you are not there when the arbiter says "Start white's clock". I take my copy of the new ECF tournament rules to the arbiter, point out your absence and claim the game.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Paul McKeown
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:08 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:54 pm
Brian Towers wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:45 pm
A lot of tournament organizers will have missed this with who knows what consequences.
I doubt there would be any consequences as there has never been a UK tournament with a zero tolerance default policy.
Actually, Roger, I believe you are quite wrong. The FIDE Laws expect a zero default time in the absence of any statement by the organiser (6.7.1). Up till this ECF butchery, various organisers in the ECF will have depended on the ECF's placeholder statement of a default default time of half an hour (standard) and ten minutes (rapid). In the absence of this placeholder, a load of tournaments in England will now have fallen back to the default time of zero. At Richmond Juniors, we will now copy the ECF document that Brian has posted, and make the salient parts a T&Cs for our tournaments. I wonder how many other organisers have been caught out by this? I will also be raising this with the incoming Home Director, who I understand is Adrian Elwin.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:23 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:08 pm
In the absence of this placeholder, a load of tournaments in England will now have fallen back to the default time of zero.
Perhaps you could name those who would apply a zero time default. I have yet to encounter one.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:25 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:01 pm
I take my copy of the new ECF tournament rules to the arbiter, point out your absence and claim the game.
Do you think an arbiter would support you? It might risk a walk out by the rest of the tournament.

Paul McKeown
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:37 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:25 pm
Brian Towers wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:01 pm
I take my copy of the new ECF tournament rules to the arbiter, point out your absence and claim the game.
Do you think an arbiter would support you? It might risk a walk out by the rest of the tournament.
Are you seriously asking if there are qualified arbiters who would knowingly break the Laws?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:40 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:37 pm
Are you seriously asking if there are qualified arbiters who would knowingly break the Laws?
Do you seriously think a UK arbiter would apply a zero time forfeit at the demand of a competitor unless the rules of the competition had flagged it well in advance?

Typically entry forms say something like
Bury St Edmunds wrote: Late Arrivals
Players arriving more than 30 minutes after the
scheduled round start time will be defaulted. Players
without opponents should expect to be re-paired 30
minutes after the start of a round.
Torbay wrote: DEFAULT & REPAIRING TIME: 30 mins after the scheduled start times.
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Paul McKeown
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:40 pm

Yes, I expect arbiters irrespective of their origins or residence to uphold the Laws.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:57 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:01 pm
Previously the default in place was the ECF's 30 minutes.
Most tournaments have been running at least 10 years and prior to Dresden 2008, FIDE default times had been one hour which stretches back to the days of Capablanca. To facilitate compulsory re-pairing, which is also against FIDE rules, entry forms were written to advise players that there was a 30 minute default. That entry forms are recycled from one year to the next leaves statements about 30 minute defaults intact regardless of whatever games FIDE ,the ECF and CAA might be playing in the mean time.

Paul McKeown
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:05 pm

Roger, in the absence of anything sensible to contribute, your silence might be to general advantage.

Michael Flatt
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Re: ECF Tournament Rules

Post by Michael Flatt » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:07 pm

FIDE Laws of Chess [Ref 1] wrote:6.7.1 The regulations of an event shall specify a default time in advance. If the default time is not specified, then it is zero. Any player who arrives at the chessboard after the default time shall lose the game unless the arbiter decides otherwise.
6.7.2 If the regulations of an event specify that the default time is not zero and if neither player is present initially, White shall lose all the time that elapses until he arrives, unless the regulations of an event specify or the arbiter decides otherwise.
In the latest version of the Laws the arbiter has been given discretion in whether to apply the zero default time. I expect that the arbiter would consult with the organiser to determine what he had intended.

References
1. FIDE Laws of Chess https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html ... ew=article

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