ECF to scrap its grading system

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Paul McKeown
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:27 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:06 pm
In which case, given that Paul has now enlightened me on the various other league chess offerings in London, sensible people will migrate to the leagues that use increments leaving the London League to wither, won't they?
One observes that those leagues in London which are actually growing are those that involve all that foreign, new-fangled nonsense, such as digital clocks and time controls with increments and websites in which the results are published on the night. Radical ideas such as an arbiter being appointed have even been tried. It is the leagues with diehard, aged reactionaries which are slowly shrinking.

Paul McKeown
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:40 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:19 am
Paul McKeown wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:25 pm
Julie Denning wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:20 pm
The old ECF League program works fine for me, but it means I'm having to maintain a Windows XP computer running just for grading, and this has caused me some problems
Julie, you can ask Windows 10 to run a program as if it were running in a Windows XP environment.

See the following page for some advice on this: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-make ... windows-10

I hope this helps.
It might be 16-bit based, Paul, in which case you can't.
Well, yes, the software could be truly ancient, perhaps originally written for DOS or Windows 3.1, back when Colonel Sanders was selling Kentucky Fried Tyrannosaur. In which case, one could run XP in a virtual machine (e,g, enable NTVDM).

However
Julie Denning wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:00 pm
Paul,
Thanks for the suggestion, but it doesn't work. When I was using Windows 7 I had the enhanced version for which there was a Microsoft freebie add on that created a virtual drive in which I could run an XP environment. I think the pro version of Windows 10 has something similar, but a bit more complex, but I only have the basic version of 10. I tried an application called Virtual Box. It seemed to work at first, but then every time the computer installed an update, it seemed to fail. I'm resigned to there not being a solution other than running an old XP computer. Mine had just about given up the ghost, but I was given another one for free that someone else was throwing out, so I'm OK at the moment.
Virtual Machines may need a little TLC.

The ECF could always mount a few copies of the old league software and provide access as a service, for those still using it, but that seems unlikely, and is really just fighting the inevitable.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:01 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:27 pm
It is the leagues with diehard, aged reactionaries which are slowly shrinking
Some even still allow adjudications :wink:
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:25 pm

"In which case, given that Paul has now enlightened me on the various other league chess offerings in London, sensible people will migrate to the leagues that use increments leaving the London League to wither, won't they?"

A fair point, but the London League is the strongest, which is probably an attraction for many players.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Barry Sandercock » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:34 am

When are the new January grades due out ?

Michael Flatt
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Michael Flatt » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:12 pm

Barry Sandercock wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:34 am
When are the new January grades due out ?
Registered ECF graders have until 14th January to submit all games played up to 31st December 2018.

Judging from previous years, it could then take another two weeks to process them, do the checks and publish the January list.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:47 pm

We were discussing recently how quickly league results could be reported.

The match result in a Berks League match tonight was reported at 22:12. That's going it a bit, given that it's a notional three hour session with an expected start time of 7:30pm. Perhaps the organiser/match captain/secretary took a laptop/tablet/phone with them to the match and all the games finished early.

But near real time reporting has become commonplace for the 4NCL.

J T Melsom
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 pm

I believe I reported a Bucks League division one game by 21:30 or thereabouts one season. Pretty sure I did so from the local pub not from the venue.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:53 am

I reported a Birmingham League Summer Competition match live as the results were coming in a few times on my phone. (I wasn't playing in the match!)

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:00 am

These are all interesting anecdotes, but unfortunately the grading system proceeds at the pace of the slowest, or at least the 98th centile.
Last edited by NickFaulks on Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mick Norris
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:21 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:47 pm
We were discussing recently how quickly league results could be reported.

The match result in a Berks League match tonight was reported at 22:12. That's going it a bit, given that it's a notional three hour session with an expected start time of 7:30pm. Perhaps the organiser/match captain/secretary took a laptop/tablet/phone with them to the match and all the games finished early.

But near real time reporting has become commonplace for the 4NCL.
Well yes, we can do that in the Manchester League, but as Neil Graham frequently points out, the issue with chess is getting captains for teams; if we exclude those who can't do electronic reporting either on site on when they get home, we're putting another hurdle in the way to actually having team (no captain = no team, not just in county chess)

For those (younger?) captains who want to, the ability to use the technology is good

I'm not seeing a need for instant reporting of league results for grading, and as already noted, quick report of congresses already takes place in most cases
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

J T Melsom
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:50 am

I don't think we should discount how much easier technology can make some of these tasks. Although you have to accept that some players are slow to respond to e-mail, it is much simpler to e-mail and wait for a response than to be stuck on the phone for long periods. And there is anecdotal evidence that people do prefer an e-mail to a phone call. I realised last season I didn't actually have phone numbers for all of my team, an oversight in case of emergency, but an indicator of the way things are changing.

J T Melsom
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:01 pm

And besides timely reporting of results isn't necessarily a problem - the list of events received for grading on the ECF website now includes an event from the London Dead. I wonder which membership category they are in?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:19 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:01 pm
And besides timely reporting of results isn't necessarily a problem - the list of events received for grading on the ECF website now includes an event from the London Dead. I wonder which membership category they are in?
That's funny. It's a typo for London Deaf. :D

Brian Towers
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Re: ECF to scrap its grading system

Post by Brian Towers » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:17 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:00 am
These are all interesting anecdotes, but unfortunately the grading system proceeds at the pace of the slowest, or at least the 98th centile.
Which prompts the usual question at this time of year - Will the January grades be delayed as usual because key personel have moved seamlessly from Hastings to Gibraltar and so are unavailable to co-ordinate the pressing of the right button?
PS I realise, Nick, that this issue has nothing to do with you, just that your comment triggered the thought.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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