Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:38 pm

If anyone is interested, a pdf of a talk I gave at City Lit in 2014 about the matches between Labourdonnais and McDonnell and their backgrounds is attached as a pdf. It was originally a pptx, but ecforum accepts pdfs only.
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McDonnell – de Labourdonnais.pdf
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:43 pm

In that presentation, the slide on page 9 is relevant, listing the lobbying tracts he wrote, mostly on behalf of the slavers and against manumission. They can be found at the British Library.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:45 pm

Concerning his paternity, I will be interested in seeing the proofs, and reserve judgement.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by O.G. Urcan » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:09 am

O.G. Urcan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:52 pm
Tim Harding wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:29 pm
I haven't for many years contributed to Chess Notes because of Winter's many and unfair attacks on my work, so that's another reason why I didn't follow up your finding.
Tim Harding refers to fairness yet makes that attack on Edward Winter without a word of substantiation.

- O.G. Urcan
A month has passed and Tim Harding has still produced no examples of "Winter's many and unfair attacks on my work."

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Gerard Killoran » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:07 pm

O.G. Urcan wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:09 am
O.G. Urcan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:52 pm
Tim Harding wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:29 pm
I haven't for many years contributed to Chess Notes because of Winter's many and unfair attacks on my work, so that's another reason why I didn't follow up your finding.
Tim Harding refers to fairness yet makes that attack on Edward Winter without a word of substantiation.

- O.G. Urcan
A month has passed and Tim Harding has still produced no examples of "Winter's many and unfair attacks on my work."
For example, how do you explain this snide remark from https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/hype.html
?

'Fulsome praise has been heaped on the new Blackburne book by Tim Harding by Tim Harding.'

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Upham » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:32 pm

Gerard Killoran wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:07 pm
For example, how do you explain this snide remark from https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/hype.html
?

'Fulsome praise has been heaped on the new Blackburne book by Tim Harding by Tim Harding.'
Quite : I had this exact comment from EGW in mind.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by O.G. Urcan » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:05 am

Gerard Killoran wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:07 pm
O.G. Urcan wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:09 am
O.G. Urcan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:52 pm


Tim Harding refers to fairness yet makes that attack on Edward Winter without a word of substantiation.

- O.G. Urcan
A month has passed and Tim Harding has still produced no examples of "Winter's many and unfair attacks on my work."
For example, how do you explain this snide remark from https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/hype.html
?

'Fulsome praise has been heaped on the new Blackburne book by Tim Harding by Tim Harding.'

Tim Harding proclaimed on his website that his Blackburne book was "the most important chess historical biography to appear for many years," and it is perfectly fair to criticize such self-promotion. See also C.N. 9592.

Regarding the Blackburne volume itself, Edward Winter made some brief, measured remarks in C.N. 9457. A follow-up item (C.N. 9526 - also fair in terms of content and tone) corrected Tim Harding for misidentifying a photograph of Buckle as Bird.

Edward Winter has written little about Tim Harding's output. The book most frequently mentioned is Eminent Victorian Chess Players, with no "attacks" of any kind.

- O.G. Urcan

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Townsend » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:20 am

I don't think Edward Winter indulges in this forum. I would regard the Blackburne comments which Gerard has mentioned as fair comment. I see nothing that is untrue - assuming that those were Tim's own words - and there is a touch of ironic humour which is not at all malicious.

It isn't clear at this stage whether Tim considers this to be one of the "unfair attacks".

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:07 pm

I see Mr. Urcan believes that Tim Harding shouldn't use his own website for 'self- promotion'. I hope the whole publishing industry will take note, and be suitably modest about their efforts in future.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:45 pm

"I hope the whole publishing industry will take note, and be suitably modest about their efforts in future."

Private Eye frequently refers to "log-rolling" by publishers.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:59 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:45 pm
"I hope the whole publishing industry will take note, and be suitably modest about their efforts in future."

Private Eye frequently refers to "log-rolling" by publishers.
I think that refers to something quite different i.e. mutual back-scratching see... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logrolling

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:15 pm

Ah, but PE do include authors from the same publisher promoting each other, which I guess comes under your definition!

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:20 pm

I see nothing wrong with publishers promoting their own authors, isn't their job?

As for authors,like Tim Harding, who promote their own work, how is that something to criticise? He could have used a much more effusive blurb as the Blackburne biography has earned praise from everyone who has written about it - apart from the Edward Winter site.

Check out

http://www.chessmail.com/research/black ... views.html

and

http://www.chessmail.com/research/black ... iews2.html

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Townsend » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:09 pm

Gerard, I think the issue is the claim which was made for the book. To say that it was "the most important chess historical biography to appear for many years" was a subjective judgement. It could not be readily verified, and some readers would say that such judgements are best left to disinterested parties. If the judgement emanated directly from the author, I see nothing unfair about Edward Winter underlining that fact.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:17 pm

John Townsend wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:09 pm
Gerard, I think the issue is the claim which was made for the book. To say that it was "the most important chess historical biography to appear for many years" was a subjective judgement. It could not be readily verified, and some readers would say that such judgements are best left to disinterested parties. If the judgement emanated directly from the author, I see nothing unfair about Edward Winter underlining that fact.
I think authors are entitled to advertise their books on their own websites. As for Edward Winter, can you point me to a single positive comment he has made about the Blackburne biography? If anything, I think Tim Harding was too modest, as he could have used these remarks from the publisher's website.

https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/jose ... lackburne/

Honorable Mention, Book of the Year Award—Chess Journalists of America “Harding tells Blackburne’s chess life with a great love for detail… breathtaking and carefully researched masterpiece”—Chess News; “[Harding] has recovered unknown games, corrected errors in published games, and created thorough travelogues for his tours and travels…definitive…an indispensable resource”—Chess Life; “stupendous door-stopper of a book”—New in Chess; “this is an excellent book, packed with game scores (often annotated) and engravings. The paper is of very high quality and the chess community should be grateful to both publisher and author for providing such a text…. Blackburne was a great chess player and this book is a fitting memorial to him”—Kingpin Chess Magazine; “definitive…an indispensable resource”—Chessbooks.nl; “massive…even more impressive than its size and weight is the amount of effort that went into producing this book…like all McFarland books the production qualities are first rate…highly recommended”—IM John Donaldson (JeremySilman.com); “impressively authoritative and readable”—Chess; “well researched…. As with all McFarland books, the quality of the publication is excellent…an excellent in-depth study”—Mind’s Eye Press; “monumental…a huge contribution to chess literature…splendid…no good chess library can afford to be without this book”—The Spectator; “both a biography and a game collection, Harding sets the record straight and fleshes out the life and career of Joseph Henry Blackburne”—ProtoView; “amazing…comprehensive…beautiful…Harding at his best!”—Huffington Post.

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