Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

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JustinHorton
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:03 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:51 am
"There is no such official title as 'Chess Historian.' there is no University course in Chess History, you do not
sit an exam, there is no postgraduate degree, FIDE does not award you the title of 'Chess Historian.'"

Not for the first time, Geoff hits the nail on the head.
Maybe somebody could tell me what point he thought he was making, because I can't see it at all.
"Do you play chess?"
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:15 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:51 am
scathing about Bath Spa University ("You get a Diploma for walking through the door.")
Better then to go to one of the universities that give away MAs without you having to do anything.

John Upham
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Upham » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:24 am

John Upham wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:53 am
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:51 am
That link doesn't mention David Hooper
I shall be correcting that omission.

Removing entries is more tricky and can incur the wrath of moderators. However, increasingly they seem to believe me for some reason.
I have added David Hooper and Tim Harding.

I would say to be classified as a chess historian then that person should have conducted peer reviewed original research using primary sources.
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Upham » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:06 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:15 am
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:51 am
scathing about Bath Spa University ("You get a Diploma for walking through the door.")
Better then to go to one of the universities that give away MAs without you having to do anything.
Traditionally (or maybe apocryphally) Oxbridge would charge £50 to upgrade a BA to an MA (and that was the sum of the effort required.)

Is this still the case or perhaps it never was?
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JustinHorton
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:15 am

I am sure it used to be less than that, not that I ever took up the opportunity or ever would have
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:29 am

John Upham wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:06 am
Traditionally (or maybe apocryphally) Oxbridge would charge £50 to upgrade a BA to an MA (and that was the sum of the effort required.)

Is this still the case or perhaps it never was?
It certainly was the case that there was a fee of some amount at Oxford because my Uncle told me he declined to pay it.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:13 pm

I think an old Cantabrigian told me that you had to wait a year then send the fee, although I cannot remember the amount.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Upham » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:34 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:13 pm
I think an old Cantabrigian told me that you had to wait a year then send the fee, although I cannot remember the amount.
Yes, waiting a year was part of the effort.
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:05 pm

John Upham wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:34 pm
Yes, waiting a year was part of the effort.
Three years in my day, unless my memory fails me.
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Gerard Killoran » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:08 pm

"There is no such official title as 'Chess Historian.' there is no University course in Chess History, you do not
sit an exam, there is no postgraduate degree, FIDE does not award you the title of 'Chess Historian.'"

Not for the first time, Geoff hits the nail on the head.
Not for the last time, Geoff hits his thumb - hard.

At the risk of enraging persons unnamed I'd like to point out that Tim Harding was awarded a PhD in History for a thesis whose subject was chess.

Tim's academic papers are listed here: http://www.chessmail.com/timsite/tim_publications.html

If only this website had a thread where this had been explored seriously, perhaps with the title 'Academic theses on the subject of chess'

viewtopic.php?t=10128

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:25 pm

I might have known a real historian would ruin the fun! Yes, you have a wide choice when it comes to PhDs...

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Geoff Chandler » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:42 pm

Hi John,

"What we have is a bunch of Wikipedia entries declaring these people to be chess historians.
Many of them were deceased before Wikipedia was launched on January 15th, 2001 by Jimmy Wales."

I said: "What we have is a bunch of people swanning about declaring themselves Chess Historians."

Yes Edward WInter, Tim Harding, Olimpiu Urcan and loads of others have put in a lot of valued work.
Perhaps FIDE should recognise this and make it an official title for services to chess rendered.
They give out GM titles like confetti, why not a recognised and official 'Fide Chess Historian' title.

They do not have one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIDE_titles

How do they get the award? We know who they are, FIDE knows who they are and they know who they are.
(maybe if they could only stop bickering with each other they could nominate each other.)

Someone should put it on the FIDE table, Who knows, some good might come out of me being pedantic.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:32 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:05 pm
Three years in my day, unless my memory fails me.
The current arrangements are set out at https://www.cambridgestudents.cam.ac.uk ... mbridge-ma. They seem to be identical to those which applied in Nick's and my day, except that admissions in person have been suspended because of the pandemic.
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:15 am
I am sure it used to be less than[£50], not that I ever took up the opportunity or ever would have.
I too have no recollection of any significant cost. I didn't find anything about money at the link.

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:59 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:32 pm
I too have no recollection of any significant cost. I didn't find anything about money at the link.
I have a vague recollection of £25.
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by O.G. Urcan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:10 pm

Please see C.N. 11819.

- O.G. Urcan

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