Lilian Letitia Barber

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Mick Norris
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Lilian Letitia Barber

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:12 am

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11558#p261660

1924-25 President of the Manchester & District Chess Association (I think being the full name back then)

Does anyone have any more information to add? It would be good for us to note the 100th anniversary coming up in 3 years time with a bit more detail if anyone has it

Alan Burke tells me:

Lilian Letitia Barber is the only ever female President of the Association and was from the St Margaret's club in Altrincham. However there was another lady on the Council at the same time, a Mrs S.S. Simpson of the Manchester Ladies' Club.

One point to note about L.L. Barber is that the MCF records show her as "Mrs J.G.B. Barber" as those were the initials of her husband and was the way in which married ladies were referred to at that time. She is also shown in the "Chess and Manchester" book as being among the Vice-Presidents of the Association from 1922 - 1939
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Mick Norris
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Re: Lilian Letitia Barber

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:03 pm

St Margaret's club in Altrincham had a simul with Emanuel Lasker 2 April 1908, where he was defeated by Miss Clara Millar

The Evening News, 21 August 1977

It seems it was quite a home for women chess players
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

John Townsend
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Re: Lilian Letitia Barber

Post by John Townsend » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:57 pm

Some life events may help.

FreeBMD shows that she was born Lillian Letitia Kalthoeber in the last quarter of 1872 in the registration district of Manchester (vol. 8d, page 201).

In the last quarter of 1896, she married John Gill B. Barber in the registration district of Salford (vol. 8d, page 274).

You can purchase certificates of these and get further details if you are sufficiently keen.

AustinElliott
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Re: Lilian Letitia Barber

Post by AustinElliott » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:13 pm

The 1990 MCF centenary volume only gives us the info we already have, i.e. that Mrs Barber was President of the M'cr Chess Assoc'n for the 1924-25 season, and that she was a member of the St Margaret's Chess Club of Altrincham. St Margaret's was already a long-established club, as they appear in the MCF records of League (Division) winners as early as 1898-9, the League's seventh year of operation.

A bit of internet digging reveals that all the Kalthoebers in the UK, including Lilian, seem to be descended from her great-grandfather, one Samuel Christian Kalthoeber, who came to the UK as a teenage apprentice in 1775. He became a famous London book-binder patronized by lots of grand people, inc King George III. See e.g.:

https://regency-explorer.net/bookbinding/

Easier to find this kind of stuff with an unusual name like Kalthoeber, of course.

One of Samuel Christian's sons followed his dad into book-binding, as did one of Lilian's uncles, but her father (one John Hann Kalthoeber, b 1846 in London) seems to have re-located to Manchester as a young man, as he is recorded getting married there in 1871. He is listed as a 'grocer' (which I guess could mean a lot of things, but I presume probably running some sort of shop) and later in life as a teacher of languages. He died in 1932.

Can't find anything on Lilian Barber (Kalthoeber) and chess, but harder to narrow stuff down on the internet with a relatively common name like Barber. In non-pandemic times one would think that the local newspaper archives at the M'cr Central Library would be a better bet.

Richard James
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Re: Lilian Letitia Barber

Post by Richard James » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:15 pm

Lancashire Evening Post 06 July 1937 wrote: A glance round the arena revealed that women competitors are well outnumbered by men. This is what Mrs. J.G. Barber, former president of the Manchester Women's Chess League and Cheshire Chess Association, who is a steward for the British Women's Championship, thinks is the reason: "Women nowadays want something more exciting than chess. They say they have no patience with it, that it is too slow and too brainy for them. They prefer cinema or entertainments after a day's work to the keen intellectual battles of the chess-board. Young women are rarely attracted by it, and the majority of women competitors are middle-aged or elderly. In my club at Altrincham there are only five members, but perhaps in time women will take to it more. I think these Congresses help us a little.

Richard James
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Re: Lilian Letitia Barber

Post by Richard James » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:23 pm

Lilian Letitia Kalthoeber born 1872 Manchester. Father was a grocer born in London - the Kalthoeber family had emigrated from Berlin in the 18th century.

In 1896 she married John Gill Barber, a widower with a young family. In 1942 she married John Edward Morgan and died on 11 December 1943.

I haven't yet found any mention of her taking part in any competitions. She seems to have been a social player, administrator and perhaps also benefactor - and no less important to the chess community for that.

Reg Clucas
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Re: Lilian Letitia Barber

Post by Reg Clucas » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:33 pm

Richard James wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:15 pm
Lancashire Evening Post 06 July 1937 wrote: In my club at Altrincham there are only five members,
That's more than we have currently at Altrincham!

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