English Chess Forum

The London CS (etc) League celebrated its centenary in 1904 and I have been commissioned to write a book on CS Chess. Unfortunately, an ex-official threw away the historical records (aaaargh!), so we don't know much pre 1946. I have read every BCM from about 1900 onwards, and am working through Chess. Some clubs (that still exist) and other individuals have supplied info. It will not be confined to the London-based League - CS chess was going on elsewhere, and individuals did things of interest. I am using CS quite loosely, for example, Bletchley Park was partly military/partly civilian, so chessplaying individuals there get a mention, which leads us to GCHQ and other establishments. And of course Turing, Milner-Barry, Aitken, Alexander (and many others) took up CS posts after they left BP.

I also need to look at "Civil Service Opinion" and Civil Service Observer" as they had chess columns about a century ago.

But if anyone can point me in the right direction to find more info, especially before 1946, I would be extremely grateful!

Kevin Thurlow wrote:The London CS (etc) League celebrated its centenary in 1904

2004, do you mean?

Well spotted, it started in 1904, and celebrated the centenary in 2004...

And another question - is the massive match between Civil Service and Rest of London, played on 22/10/1927, and scheduled for 500 boards, still a UK record? The Rest won 297.5 - 210.5, so a few reserves got games as well! I don't think the South v North match organised by "Chess" beat it - I should remember as I was South captain.

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Well spotted, it started in 1904, and celebrated the centenary in 2004...

And another question - is the massive match between Civil Service and Rest of London, played on 22/10/1927, and scheduled for 500 boards, still a UK record? The Rest won 297.5 - 210.5, so a few reserves got games as well! I don't think the South v North match organised by "Chess" beat it - I should remember as I was South captain.

I've heard of these massive 100+ board matches, which sound like a nightmare to organise. When was this South v North match, how many boards, who won, and how was "North" and "South" defined (I can imagine some imaginative ways to do the definitions)?

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I've heard of these massive 100+ board matches, which sound like a nightmare to organise.

I'm assuming the team was organised in batches; say 25 people had the job of getting a team of 20 people, and they were assigned to different clubs so as to avoid asking the same person twice.

"I'm assuming the team was organised in batches; say 25 people had the job of getting a team of 20 people, and they were assigned to different clubs so as to avoid asking the same person twice."

The 1927 one had two organisers according to the report. Bear in mind that in those days county matches were usually over 50 boards, sometimes 100. Ironic really - travel was so much more difficult then, yet even in the Surrey league, some people whine about travelling 20 miles because it is too far...

The one in which I was involved was sponsored by "Chess" when Pergamon took over, (Paul Lamford was editor) and I can't remember when (probably early 80s). It was South of London vs North of London, there is a concentration of chess players in the South East. I telephoned every club secretary in Kent, Sussex, Surrey etc. seeking players, and obviously spoke to people at league matches and tournaments. It was a lot of phone calls. When everybody got to the venue, some players were transferred so that everybody played. There were all sorts of prizes and I think everybody was supposed to get a pocket set or some such. Ghislaine Maxwell (daughter of Robert) turned up to do an opening ceremony. The plan was to have a 1000 board match, but it didn't get near that. As far as I could tell, people enjoyed it, and Paul could reasonably say that he had marketed the magazine. By then I was regretting that I had agreed to do it, but the cheque for expenses was generous, so that made me feel better! I wouldn't like to organise something like that again. Of course it would be easier now - set up a website, advertise it here, relatively easy. Off you go Alex!

Kevin

The Pergamon takeover of CHESS was in 1987-88, so your recollection is slightly out, Kevin

Kevin Thurlow wrote: The 1927 one had two organisers according to the report. Bear in mind that in those days county matches were usually over 50 boards, sometimes 100. Ironic really - travel was so much more difficult then, yet even in the Surrey league, some people whine about travelling 20 miles because it is too far...

Kevin - I would take issue with your assertion that travel was more difficult in the 1920s. I would imagine that it was generally a fair bit easier, with more frequent trains and buses, also trams and trolley buses, and it would certainly have been much cheaper. Not many people would have had cars, of course, but those who had them (and I'm guessing that people who played chess were slightly better off then than we riff-raff who play it today!) would have been able to tootle along empty roads and abandon their Model Ts right outside the venue without worrying about as-yet uninvented phenomena such as parking tickets or traffic wardens. 20 miles really is too far these days when you are travelling across London. Google Maps seems to think it takes 57 mins to travel from Kingston to Plumstead (20 miles) but that's nonsense - I've made the trip many times and I'd say it was between 1½ and 2 hours on average.

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Of course it would be easier now - set up a website, advertise it here, relatively easy. Off you go Alex!

I'll put it in my to-do list... (At the bottom)

Alex Holowczak wrote:

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Of course it would be easier now - set up a website, advertise it here, relatively easy. Off you go Alex!

I'll put it in my to-do list... (At the bottom)

I'll play!

500 boards eigh?

Kevin, how many members do you think the Civil Service could muster up now? I'm thinking even 50 boards wouldn't be easy.

John has a point - I found that doing 25 miles from Surrey to almost Essex took considerably longer than one would expect. It wasn't helped by the vast number of traffic lights - I think 135 - along the route, about five of which are in the first ten miles. However if you enter a league you should fulfil the fixtures. In the early days of Redhill Chess Club, it is reported that the team travelled by stagecoach to darkest Kent (and sometimes darkest Surrey) to play a match, which would be accompanied by a fine lunch, and a guided walk of the district, as well as the chess.

Thanks to Matt - slightly more recent than I thought, but not that far off; I do enough organisation to lose track of some of the events!

Gareth - there are only about 200 players in the London CS League, but obviously there are loads of players who don't play in the league, and they are scattered over the country, so I doubt the match will be repeated!

Kevin - I suspect we have the worst of London travel in South London. The North Circular is actually a road, whereas the South Circular is more of a concept (and a none too convincing one either).

I believe some of your more antique Redhill CC members may still have been travelling to away matches at Mitcham by stagecoach in the late 1970s. Or, if they didn't, they should have been.

Having just been to London and travelling around on public transport, I think you're complaining about a problem that doesn't exist. Try living elsewhere in the country, and compare the two. A frequent local underground service, 24-hour buses (on a Sunday!). You have no right to complain.

You stupid boy, Pike...

"I believe some of your more antique Redhill CC members may still have been travelling to away matches at Mitcham by stagecoach in the late 1970s. Or, if they didn't, they should have been."

That may have been the case then, but now we are young, dynamic and thrusting. Well, partially at least. We were proud of our 85 year-old player who came in with his arm in a sling, and when we expressed concern, he said he had damaged it playing tennis.

If we played Mitcham now, I would choose to arrive in a sedan chair.