England's Number One Player

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
Leonard Barden
Posts: 1860
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:21 am

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by Leonard Barden » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:04 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote: Barden (of this parish :)


The emphasis here is on the smiley.....Despite fluctuations in his form, Alexander was reckoned No1 from around 1937-8, when he tied second with Keres at Hastings, to 1958. When available, he was always top board for the England team in that period.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21318
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:28 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote: Keene 1971-1975 (Hartston?)
In the 1972 Olympiad, Keene was board 1 to Hartston's board 2. In both the 1973 European team and the 1974 Olympiad, it was the other way round. Later in the 1976 Olympiad, it was 1 Miles, 2 Keene, 3 Hartston.

For the period before 1938, you could heed the decisions of the Olympiad selectors. So top boards had been

1927 HE Atkins
1930 Mir Sultan Khan
1931 Mir Sultan Khan
1933 Mir Sultan Khan
1935 William Winter
1937 Sir George Thomas
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Leonard Barden
Posts: 1860
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:21 am

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by Leonard Barden » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:48 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote: So with this and a bit more thought, I think my list is now:


Yates 1912-1936 (ignoring Sultan Khan, since even his nationality is complex in modern terms)
Atkins 189x-1911
(gap?)
Amos Burn 1870-1890
Blackburne 1860-1870
Staunton 1840-1860

(particularly embarrassing to have forgotten Burn, since I can see his biography on the shelf from here :oops: )
Yates would have had a problem staying No1 after 1932.....

The Victorian suggested dates are dubious, eg Blackburne was world No3 after he had his greatest success with first prize at Berlin 1881. Tim Harding's fine book Eminent Victorian Chess Players would give a much more precise viewpoint.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 7253
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:00 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:The latest rating list made me think about English number ones. Luke McShane is ahead on the live list, and might be our first new number one for a long time.
Whilst not a new number one Nigel Short overtook Mickey in Sep 2009 but Mickey then regained the number one spot in March 2010.

Tim Harding
Posts: 2321
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by Tim Harding » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:39 pm

Thanks to those who have recommended my book 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'.
Certainly you will get a much more nuanced view from reading it, but I can suggest the following picture roughly. I am taking the initial question about this being England's number one player literally, assuming that we disregard for this purpose those who were Scottish, Irish, immigrants or only visiting.
(Otherwise Steinitz or Zukertort would be no 1 for many years, while Löwenthal only took out citizenship after his peak year of 1858. In some later years, Mason, and in several years Mackenzie and Gunsberg would complicate the picture).
While researching and writing, I interacted a lot with Canadian maths professor Rod Edwards whose edochess.ca site would give a slightly different picture.
Staunton first appears as top English player in 1838 on Edwards's ratings and retains that position until his last really active year of 1858 when Löwenthal defeated him 2-0 in Birmingham.
Between 1838 and 1840 Staunton was only developing and was possibly not a strong as, for instance, Slous but there is no direct evidence on which they can be compared.
From 1859 and over the next few years there is no clear leader.
Then in 1866 a formal British Challenge Cup is staged and De Vere wins. He is also the top British player at Dundee 1867 and the Edo ratings show De Vere still top up to and including 1869, but in March that year Blackburne beat him in the playoff for the Challenge Cup so JHB might now be number 1 for the purposes of this argument.
Amos Burn had long periods of inactivity and some distinct peaks, as Richard Forster showed in his biography, and which is more or less confirmed in the short chapter about him in my book.

To summarise, we can say:

1820s: William Lewis, John Cochrane (before he goes to India) and Donaldson of Edinburgh.
1829 (approx) to his death in 1835: Alexander McDonnell (but he was Irish), with Lewis the top English player but increasingly inactive.
Interregnum to 1840 with George Walker and Slous perhaps the strongest, Staunton rising.

1841-1853 clearly Staunton, and maybe still him to 1858.

Another interregnum (nb: Rev John Owen was top Englishman at London 1862).

1866-68 De Vere
1869-72 De Vere and Blackburne joint top;
1873-1895 Blackburne
EXCEPT for 1889-1891 when Burn is top.

(In the period 1885-1891 Gunsberg was top or close to it, if we counted him as English, as most of his contemporaries did, although he was not yet a citizen. From 1892-4 Burn was in America and Gunsberg was chiefly a journalist for reasons explained in my book.
So, almost by default, Blackburne is top again. No English player does well at Hastings 1895.)

1896-7 Atkins
1898-1901 Burn
1902-1911 (at least) Atkins

I won't offer an opinion after that.
However, when you consider that Blackburne came very close to winning the 1914 British Championship,
it is clear that overall he was the dominant English-born player for much of half a century, and I think
this also explains why he is to be my next book project.

If you think you may be able to assist with research, please look at:

http://www.chessmail.com/research/blackburne.html

Thank you.
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter

Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

E Michael White
Posts: 1420
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by E Michael White » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:12 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:Penrose 1958-1970
Kottnauer was probably no 1 on results, for 1 or 2 of those years in the early 60s. 1963 is probably the most likely; in the following year he played board 1 at Tel Aviv.

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3495
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:02 pm

I know they are standing on the shoulders of all who have
gone on before them. Which is how it should be.
That is why they are so good.

But hard to split Miles, Nunn and Short at their peaks.
A three way tournament? Nigel (after a blitz play off.) :wink:

Bringing in everybody from the past forgetting grades and all the numbers again Nigel.
He qualified for a World Title match.
(The score of which suggests it was one-sided but the actual games do not.)

We could go on all day about this and everyone would disagree.

Who has played the best single game?
Agiain it's a matter of taste, I'll kick off with two.

Some of of the games of Miles and Nunn are simply superb.
But...
Nigel's King walk v Timman.
Yates Beating Alekhine with the KID

:| (wot no Penrose-Tal?)

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 5243
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:12 am

Beliavsky-Nunn Wijk 1985 (devastating positional rook sacrifice) has to be up there. As, of course, does 1e4 a6 :lol: 8)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3191
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: England's Number One Player

Post by MJMcCready » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:24 am

And which, I wonder, was the greatest source of inspiration for following generations? Harder to answer but my guess is Miles in the modern era although Speelman's exploits at Linares were quite outstanding too. (Hope I am not hijacking the topic in anyway here).