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Start of the modern move of the queen

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:48 pm
by Anthony Appleyard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... odern_game

says:-
The queen and bishop remained relatively weak until between 1475 AD and 1500 AD, in either Spain, Portugal, France or Italy, the queen's and bishop's modern moves started and spread
(Before that, the queen moved 1 square diagonally, and that was its only move; and the bishop moved 2 squares (no more or less) but could jump.)

Has any more detailed information come to light about when and where the modern moves of queen and bishop started and spread?

(Before this, in some areas, the queen in its first move could move 2 squares to a square the same color, with jump :: this was one of various special first moves to make the game start quicker.)

Re: Start of the modern move of the queen

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:30 pm
by PeterTurland
Anthony Appleyard wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... odern_game

says:-
The queen and bishop remained relatively weak until between 1475 AD and 1500 AD, in either Spain, Portugal, France or Italy, the queen's and bishop's modern moves started and spread
(Before that, the queen moved 1 square diagonally, and that was its only move; and the bishop moved 2 squares (no more or less) but could jump.)

Has any more detailed information come to light about when and where the modern moves of queen and bishop started and spread?

(Before this, in some areas, the queen in its first move could move 2 squares to a square the same color, with jump :: this was one of various special first moves to make the game start quicker.)
Hello.
This fits the bill I think. The story goes, that the queen used to be considered a male piece, but at the time it was empowered, Ferdinand and Isabella were on the Spanish throne, Ferdinand was considered weak and Isabella was considered strong, which was why the Vizier changed sex and became a queen.

Re: Start of the modern move of the queen

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:15 pm
by Anthony Appleyard
PeterTurland wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... odern_game
Hello.
This fits the bill I think. The story goes, that the queen used to be considered a male piece, but at the time it was empowered, Ferdinand and Isabella were on the Spanish throne, Ferdinand was considered weak and Isabella was considered strong, which was why the Vizier changed sex and became a queen.
Anthony Appleyard wrote: That may partly explain how the piece's name changed from Alfferza (or similar) to (Spanish for) Queen, but where did the queen's modern move arise? Does any source say that it started in town X in country Y and spread from there?

Re: Start of the modern move of the queen

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:03 am
by Anthony Appleyard
From what I have found, existing old chess records mention the new queen and bishop moves as established, or say nothing, but do not say that its use spread from this to that place or area. It seems to me that the two root ideas in these new moves developing were:-
(1) Let the queen move 2 squares with jump at any time, not merely for its first move.
(2) Replace "two squares with jump" by "any number of squares without jump" for bishop and queen.
(In the old Islamic chess, the queen was "firzān" or "firz", and represented the king's vizier or advisor, not his wife.)

In those old times there was no FIDE, and each area played chess by its own customs, and not all minor points were ruled for, and if new players learned wrong rules, they likely kept on playing like that, and I can imagine one group making the queen's special first move at wrong times, and suchlike.

Another sporadic local rule variation was ignoring check from a piece which was covering check (A History of Chess, bottom of p.311, by H.J.R.Murray, publ. Oxford at the Clarendon Press.): e.g. in the position "White Rc1 Ke7, Black Bc5 Pb6 Kc8", some might say that in theory B x K would allow R x K in reply.

Re: Start of the modern move of the queen

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:37 pm
by Tim Harding
On this topic, read "Birth of the Chess Queen" by Marilyn Yalom (published 2004).

Re: Start of the modern move of the queen

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:03 pm
by Anthony Appleyard
Tim Harding wrote:On this topic, read "Birth of the Chess Queen" by Marilyn Yalom (published 2004).
Birth of the Chess Queen: A History
by Marilyn Yalom, reviewed by Rick Kennedy
HarperCollins, 2004
Hardcover, 272 pages
ISBN 0060090642

http://www.chessville.com/reviews/Birth ... sQueen.htm

Re: Start of the modern move of the queen

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:37 pm
by Gordon Cadden
For the definitive work, I recommend "The Return of Francesch Vicent", a history of the birth and expansion of modern chess, by Jose A. Garzon, Valencia, 2005. English Language.
ISBN 84-482-4194-0 This book is available from Tony Peterson. tony@chessbooks.co.uk