Chess history trivia

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed May 11, 2016 5:08 pm

It is before 1910. Tim even said it was Victorian! :D

What they would have been 'driving' would have been a carriage. Well, their driver would have been driving it.

The identity of the opponent is an interesting conundrum.

Tim Harding
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Tim Harding » Wed May 11, 2016 8:25 pm

A few wealthy people (e.g. Sir George Newnes) did own motor cars before the end of Victoria's reign.

In this case, though, it would have been a horse-drawn carriage.
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John McKenna
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John McKenna » Thu May 12, 2016 1:39 am

"Motor cars" were know as "horseless carriages" at that time.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=hor ... ORM=IQFRBA
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

MJMcCready
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by MJMcCready » Thu May 12, 2016 3:18 am

I've never heard the expression 'drive a carriage' before, we usually 'go' by one or 'take' one don't we? I understood the question in terms of the collocation of the verb, which admittedly was a little confusing since we are referring to Victorian times but as mentioned above, a few people did have cars at the end of the 19th century. 'We drove as usual', suggests a motorized-carriage perhaps but not a horse-drawn carriage I think as we don't drive horses.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu May 12, 2016 8:34 am

"'We drove as usual', suggests a motorized-carriage perhaps but not a horse-drawn carriage I think as we don't drive horses."

I think in Victorian times, they would use "drive" to mean travelling in a carriage/ dog cart/ stagecoach / hansom cab etc...

We need not linger on the other sense of "drive", for example "driving cattle", when you round them up, head them up and shift thousands of them to the nearest rail head en route to slaughter. Victorian times, different country.

John McKenna
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John McKenna » Thu May 12, 2016 8:55 am

And, where did the expression - to drive a coach and horses through something - originate?

McDonalds would seem to be in agreement that you can't drive through a horse and cart, though.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/08/mcdonalds ... h-5868093/

Maybe its a question of class - would Prince Philip get served if he turfed up?

http://reneschoop.co.uk/prince-philip-carriage-driving/
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

MJMcCready
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by MJMcCready » Thu May 12, 2016 9:13 am

Hmmm well ok but let us not hijack the question. Does anyone know the answer?

Rob Ensor
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Rob Ensor » Thu May 12, 2016 2:17 pm

Jane Welsh Carlyle was one of the most prominent female letter writers of the Victorian period and she certainly played chess. If the quote is hers, then I'll guess she was visiting Nottingham in which case her opponent would likely have been Joseph Neuberg. I'm afraid I have no idea as to the date of the letter.

Tim Harding
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Tim Harding » Thu May 12, 2016 9:00 pm

Rob Ensor wrote:Jane Welsh Carlyle was one of the most prominent female letter writers of the Victorian period and she certainly played chess. If the quote is hers, then I'll guess she was visiting Nottingham in which case her opponent would likely have been Joseph Neuberg. I'm afraid I have no idea as to the date of the letter.
Jane Carlyle is correct but it wasn't Nottingham.
Tim Harding
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri May 13, 2016 1:03 pm

I'm pretty sure her opponent was Lady Harriet Mary Montagu, and the place was Addiscombe, Croydon, Surrey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Harriet_Mary_Montagu

Tim Harding
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Tim Harding » Mon May 16, 2016 1:55 pm

Gerard Killoran wrote:I'm pretty sure her opponent was Lady Harriet Mary Montagu, and the place was Addiscombe, Croydon, Surrey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Harriet_Mary_Montagu
Sorry not her. I have received one almost correct answer by PM. (Place right but opponent was wrong.)
Last 24 hours for someone to get it completely right.
Tim Harding
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Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

Tim Harding
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Tim Harding » Tue May 17, 2016 4:11 pm

OK, the winner is Christopher Kreuzer who wrote to me by PM:
She was writing to her husband Thomas Carlyle on 15 August 1842.
She was visiting Troston Rectory, Troston, Suffolk.
She was playing Charles Buller.
All correct but he guessed Charles Buller junior when Jane Welsh Carlyle's opponent was actually that man's father.
Tim Harding
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Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

MJMcCready
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by MJMcCready » Wed May 18, 2016 1:18 pm

Tim, can't you ask slightly easier questions?

MJMcCready
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by MJMcCready » Wed May 18, 2016 1:47 pm

New Question: Which Soviet tournament was once disrupted by an escaped parrot?
Last edited by MJMcCready on Thu May 19, 2016 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tim Harding
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Tim Harding » Wed May 18, 2016 10:08 pm

MJMcCready wrote:Tim, can't you ask slightly easier questions?
I could, and it would be easier for me, but when I asked the quite difficult one (as I believed) about Kieseritzky's blindfold record, back in March (see page 5) of this thread somebody googled the answer within hours, which spoils the fun.
Tim Harding
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Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

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