Chess history trivia

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:17 pm

Hippish?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Gerard Killoran » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:29 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:17 pm
Hippish?
Definition of hippish. : characterized by or suffering from worry, depression, or hypochondia : hipped.
Hippish | Definition of Hippish by Merriam-Webster

John Townsend
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John Townsend » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:38 am

Three of the players in the main London tournament of 1851 were dead by the time of Birmingham, 1858. Name them.

Andy Stoker
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Andy Stoker » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:55 am

To get us started, according to Chessgames.com, the following played in 1851:
Adolf Anderssen
Elijah Williams
Marmaduke Wyvill
Jozsef Szen
Howard Staunton
Hugh Alexander Kennedy
Bernhard Horwitz
James Swain Mucklow
Henry Edward Bird
Johann Jacob Loewenthal
Lionel Adalbert Bagration Felix Kieseritzky
Edward Lowe
Edward Shirley Kennedy
Karl Mayet
Alfred Brodie
Samuel Newham

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:38 pm

To make it more fun, who was the last surviving player from that famous 1851 tournament (at least one player survived into the 20th century and was only 22 at the time of the tournament)? And how many of those players were born in the 18th century?

The one that died soon after was Kieseritzky, who died young at 47 in 1853, and according to Wikipedia: "he died unmourned in Paris [and was buried in a pauper's grave".

There are at least four players from those 16 that died before 1858, not three. And one more that was born in the 18th century.

There is spirited debate on chessgames.com over the exact identity and dates of E. S. Kennedy (brother of the more famous Hugh A. Kennedy), so he is possibly Edward Shirley Kennedy (1817-1898), though this is not certain.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:57 am

No-one has answered John's question, so I'll go ahead:

Lionel Kieseritzky died in 1853
Elijah Williams died in 1854
József Szén died in 1857

The substitute English players are not well known, but Alfred Brodie may have died in 1857 at the age of 47 if you believe what has been posted at chessgames.com (see here). I suspect that may need proper verification.

John Townsend
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John Townsend » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:19 am

Correct answer, Christopher. The chess column of the Field, 18 September 1858 - viewed on the Chess Archaeology website with thanks - noted "three of the chief players in the great tournament of 1851" who had since died. These were the three you named. I took "the chief players" to mean players in the main tournament, but it can be interpreted differently. I suspect you are right about Brodie being a fourth.

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:09 pm

Alfred Brodie does seem to have died in 1857.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:17 pm

Is it the same Alfred Brodie? And what do you think about the Edward Shirley Kennedy dates and whether that is the right person?

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MJMcCready
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:19 pm

This has all become rather morbid. You could apply first born last to die to some many major events, like AVRO, order of deaths, and how dissimilar was it to the final standings? A bit grim.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:43 pm

I'm only throwing it in because I don't know the answer, but excluding simuls, who was the first amateur player or untitled player if you like, or someone unknown to beat the official world champion of the day?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:48 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:43 pm
I'm only throwing it in because I don't know the answer, but excluding simuls, who was the first amateur player or untitled player if you like, or someone unknown to beat the official world champion of the day?
That is... a very difficult question to answer for a number of reasons. (For example, "untitled player" is not well-defined before 1950.)

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:43 am

Can it be answered for after 1950?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:52 am

Chessgames has Botvinnik losing to Kopilov in the 1951 USSR Championship, though Kopilov "became a chess master of the USSR in 1946".
"Do you play chess?"
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John Moore
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Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John Moore » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:06 pm

I doubt that anyone who qualified for the USSR Championship Final fits the bill.

How about Thorsten Gauffin of Finland who beat Max Euwe at the Stockholm Olympiad in 1937 in the period when Euwe was World Champion. Gauffin (board 1 for Finland) made 4 out of 14 in this event with 2 wins, 4 draws and 8 losses (although his other win was against Paul Keres!). ChessMetrics gives Gauffin a quite ridiculous historic rating of 2547 on the basis of the two wins and 4 losses against Reshevsky, Lilienthal etc but fails to take account of his 4 draws and 4 losses against the weaker top boards. I guess he might have been 2350-2400.

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