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Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:17 pm
by Ian Thompson
John Saunders wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:08 pm
I was quite surprised when I stumbled on this curiosity. Was Hartston known for his strength with Black?
I'm sure I read a long time ago a report observing that the England teams of the 70's/80's scored better with Black than with White. It made derogatory comments about their knowledge of opening theory and poor choices of white openings.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:17 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
The U-11 from 1975 is interesting -I recognize about 10 names from that, but not the winner. (Apologies if I should remember...)

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:25 pm
by Matt Mackenzie
Ian Thompson wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:17 pm
John Saunders wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:08 pm
I was quite surprised when I stumbled on this curiosity. Was Hartston known for his strength with Black?
I'm sure I read a long time ago a report observing that the England teams of the 70's/80's scored better with Black than with White. It made derogatory comments about their knowledge of opening theory and poor choices of white openings.
Well that had certainly ended by the 1984 Olympiad, when John Nunn made a stratospheric score whilst having White in nearly every game.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:49 pm
by John Saunders
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:17 pm
The U-11 from 1975 is interesting -I recognize about 10 names from that, but not the winner. (Apologies if I should remember...)
I played him once at the 1977 LARA Open when he outplayed me in the opening but I (as Black) managed to cheapo him, as was typical of my experience as a hacker coming up against booked-up juniors. No sign of him playing much after that from what I can see - bad results against me often seem to trigger retirements from active play, RDK being a case in point. I found something about Neale Walford online (with a photo) here. Evidently concentrating on his professional career, the sensible fellow.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:17 pm
by Simon Brown
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:17 pm
The U-11 from 1975 is interesting -I recognize about 10 names from that, but not the winner. (Apologies if I should remember...)
I remember that one for a number of reasons. First, my brother (JA) drew with Nigel Short in an early round - I have the game score somewhere. Second, the Kings, Andrews and Browns rented a big house and, I believe after Leonard asked, we looked after a young player we didn't know at the time, who had a habit of disappearing to the sea front by himself and loved the amusement arcades. He was from Yorkshire and his family moved to Morecambe not much later. Ian Wells.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:32 pm
by Nick Ivell
I don't think Hartston was particularly known for his prowess with Black. It's just that at Morecambe he hit a rich vein of form with Black - I remember it, because I was there.

The U-14 took place in the morning, giving me lots of time to watch the titled players in the afternoon.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:43 pm
by Kevin Thurlow
"bad results against me often seem to trigger retirements from active play, "

Luckily, I didn't react like that!

Neale Walford has obviously found something useful to do.

It is interesting to look at old junior results, that one had loads of names I recognized - others regrettably all seem to have stopped playing.

And Simon's memory was good to read, tinged with inevitable sadness of course.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:22 am
by John Saunders
I'm glad people enjoy browsing the crosstables and results I post on BritBase. It's a Sisyphean task I've set myself but, as well as game scores, I'm now trying to gather together all the names of people who played in all sections of British Championships over the years, and I'm trying to expand them into forenames and surnames rather than the traditional initials and surnames published in federation yearbooks and national magazines. I've already had some invaluable help with this from people such as Brian Denman and Paul Georghiou and I would welcome more assistance from forum readers who can supply more names, or perhaps correct the ones I've got wrong. The best way to navigate the pages is starting at the page with the list of champions and then clicking on the year in the second column of the table. As you can see, I've got something for all years up to 1991, with the years 1992 to 2003 still to go.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:51 pm
by Joseph Conlon
John - have sent you an email with various full names from U9/U10/U11 in the late 1980s.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:17 pm
by John Saunders
Joseph Conlon wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:51 pm
John - have sent you an email with various full names from U9/U10/U11 in the late 1980s.
Thanks, Joe. Thank you for your info which I have applied to the relevant files. Thanks also to others who have responded.

I've discovered that the online grading list has a longer reach back into the past than I had expected. As a result, I've been able to make use of it to discover full names for most players who took part in subsidiary events at the British Championships of the early 1990s. The remaining snag is where players have very common surnames. This is a particular difficulty with the results of the 1992 Championship (which I'm working on at the moment). The Yearbook gave a full list of competitors in all sections but for the most part just their first initial and surname, with only the prize-winners having additional info about their home town/club. This isn't a problem where the surname is unusual but becomes problematic where the name is, say, A. Smith and the grading list inevitably offers plausible alternatives. (I've personally known at least four competition chess players with that name, and I'm sure other forum members will easily 'see' my four A. Smiths and 'raise' me a couple more.) So I would still appreciate some help with those.

For the longer term, any forum members thinking of starting a family - can I ask you, please, to take care when choosing names for your offspring. In particular, try to avoid giving them the same first initial as your own forename, or that of their siblings or any other chess-playing members of the family. This will be a great boon to a future generation of chess writers, graders and archivists, and, if you think about it, might also avoid accidental damage to your own grade as your offspring begin their chess careers. I thank you...

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:53 pm
by Paul Habershon
John Saunders wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:17 pm

For the longer term, any forum members thinking of starting a family - can I ask you, please, to take care when choosing names for your offspring. In particular, try to avoid giving them the same first initial as your own forename, or that of their siblings or any other chess-playing members of the family..
And for other reasons. I have never moved my bank account from where it was first opened when I was 18 and still living with my parents. Halfway through my working career my monthly salary was once paid into the account of my father, Peter, - same initial.
.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:23 am
by Kevin Thurlow
"Halfway through my working career my monthly salary was once paid into the account of my father, Peter, - same initial."

If it's any consolation, Midland once did that to me, and my father's name was Ivan...

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:36 am
by IM Jack Rudd
John will be pleased to know that my son's name is very distinguishable. So much so, in fact, that he may be the only person in the world with his surname.

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:16 am
by Ian Thompson
Several chess history questions have appeared in the Dorset CCA Daily Quiz in the last few days:

1. How many times has England won a medal at the Chess Olympiads?
2. In which century was castling changed to one move?
3. How many times has the UK hosted the Chess Olympiad?

Re: Chess history trivia

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:42 am
by John Upham
Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:16 am
Several chess history questions have appeared in the Dorset CCA Daily Quiz in the last few days:

2. In which century was castling changed to one move?
According to Hooper & Whyld :

"Lucena shows modern castling in two moves: 1 e4
e5 2 NI3 Nc6 3Bc4Bc5 4d3Nf6 5h3d6 6Bb5
a6 7 Ra4 Rf8 8 Nc3 Kg8 (the leap) 9 Bc3 Bxc3
It) fxe3 h6 11 Gd2 Qe7 12 Rdl Be6, and White
makes a leap 13 Kcl. By the end of the 16th
century castling was firmly established as a single
move
, but there were 16 versions: Kfl & Ret, Kgl
Sc Re 1, Kg 1 & Rfl, Khl Sc Ret, Khl &Rfl,Khl
Sc Rgl, and ten queen's side permutations. There
were also regional variations. Sometimes castling
was forbidden if as a consequence the rook would
attack an enemy man, or if the king had been in
check previously. Sometimes a king could pass
over a square attacked by an enemy man, or a
player could castle if his king had been moved but
not checked. Sometimes the g- or h-pawn could be
moved at the same time. Ruy lofez, in his book of
1561, quoted castling as it is now played and this
became generally established by the 17th century
except in Italy, where many versions of castling
remained in use until the early 20th century. This
Tree castling 5 aroused the sharp tongue of van der
linde —- l free—as in free love', he said. By mistake
or otherwise a player sometimes castles after
having moved his king away from and back to its
starting square. In an Irish dub game in 1973 no
one noticed when one oi the players, W. Heiden-
feld, castled for the second time. Nevertheless he
lost the game. "