Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:42 pm
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
I was just about to post this which I think is the same as (at least, very similar to) John's analysis above.
I'm pretty sure move 24-28 are right - nothing else fits with the length of the moves. Similarly to John, I'm not sure where the black Rook goes on move 22 - also where the black Bishop goes on move 29, or which Rook is taken on move 23.
I'm pretty sure move 24-28 are right - nothing else fits with the length of the moves. Similarly to John, I'm not sure where the black Rook goes on move 22 - also where the black Bishop goes on move 29, or which Rook is taken on move 23.
-
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Would think black's 29th is probably Bc4 (B-B5). White's next three being Kb2-a3-b4 and black spending most of his next few moves punting his K-side pawns down the board.
-
- Posts: 10364
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Somewhere you're not
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
So if you're right, that might give us
29 ... B-B5
30 K-Kt2 P-R4
31 K-R3 P-Kt4
32 K-Kt4
and then the bishop moves, but to where?
29 ... B-B5
30 K-Kt2 P-R4
31 K-R3 P-Kt4
32 K-Kt4
and then the bishop moves, but to where?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:42 pm
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Based on seeing some 7s and 8s, some possible knight moves and the pawn captures on move 38, I've got the following written down:JustinHorton wrote:So if you're right, that might give us
29 ... B-B5
30 K-Kt2 P-R4
31 K-R3 P-Kt4
32 K-Kt4
and then the bishop moves, but to where?
32...B-R3
33. Kt-Kt5 ???
34. Kt-[Q6?] ???
35. B-B7 ???
36. B-Kt8 ???
37. B-R7 P-R5
38. PxP PxP
39. B-Kt6 P-R6
But I'm struggling to produce a reasonable set of Black moves for 33-36 that fit with White's.
-
- Posts: 10364
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Somewhere you're not
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Isn't Black's 34th a capture, by the way?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:42 pm
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
I didn't think so - though I could potentially be persuaded.JustinHorton wrote:Isn't Black's 34th a capture, by the way?
I think it might just be possible to go a bit further with this (albeit with some speculative intermediate moves) as Black clearly promotes with check on move 49.
-
- Posts: 1006
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:51 am
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Can I congratulate the team on a mighty effort. I think too many of the moves in the right-hand column are just too hard to decipher, but Black's 34th seems to be B-B i.e. Bc8. (or it could be B-R i.e. Ba8)
The problem seems to be that Black's bishop and rook have too many squares to choose from for a full reconstruction to be possible.
The problem seems to be that Black's bishop and rook have too many squares to choose from for a full reconstruction to be possible.
-
- Posts: 10364
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Somewhere you're not
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Ah that's interesting, but do we have any reason to reckon they employed that usage? (I also note the paper with the Felce score has 20....QR-KBsq.)
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
White's 37th move in the text of the game in question could be just B-R (implying the unique B-R7, i.e. Bb8-a7)… another bygone practice was to write, for example, R-Ksq instead of R-K1, and this survives in the occasional American R-K but is not recommended as chess moves lend themselves to printer's errors. (Oxford Companion)
On the other hand there's also the ghost of a figure 7 (or even a ?) immediately after the move.
-
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:27 am
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
John's post has reminded me that 'Lasker's Greatest Chess Games' by Reinfeld & Fine employs this minimalist 'B-R' notation system that he speaks of. I was initially convinced that the book was full of typing errors. Thankfully, that wasn't the case, but I don't think I've seen it used elsewhere.
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Thanks, Colin, for confirming (above) that the Americans did use that short form of descriptive notation.
Gerard, I hope that the following somewhat speculative further reconstruction, based on the 'team' efforts here thus far, is good enough to at least indicate lines plausible enough to allow a more complete deciphering -Gerard Killoran wrote:Can I congratulate the team on a mighty effort. I think too many of the moves in the right-hand column are just too hard to decipher, but Black's 34th seems to be B-B i.e. Bc8. (or it could be B-R i.e. Ba8)
The problem seems to be that Black's bishop and rook have too many squares to choose from for a full reconstruction to be possible.
-
- Posts: 1006
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:51 am
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Well done John. An impressive piece of work. I would be surprised if the game turns out to be different from your reconstruction. The moves have a logical flow and none of them would need to be queried by a mixture of question and exclamation marks.
As for the game itself it shows how to play against a master in a simul. Give him (or her) a lot of tactical problems to solve, get ahead, and then hang on - and don't panic - when they turn on their technique.
More proof that chess players can resist anything, except a challenge.
As for the game itself it shows how to play against a master in a simul. Give him (or her) a lot of tactical problems to solve, get ahead, and then hang on - and don't panic - when they turn on their technique.
More proof that chess players can resist anything, except a challenge.
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Thanks for finding that rough diamond of a game and issuing the challenge, Gerard. What you said at the conclusion of your post, above, rings true.
Without that and without the team effort I couldn't have contributed to cutting the gem.
There may yet be some minor flaws or slight blemishes within it - the moves of the black rook and bishop in the endgame are not totally clear.
Without that and without the team effort I couldn't have contributed to cutting the gem.
There may yet be some minor flaws or slight blemishes within it - the moves of the black rook and bishop in the endgame are not totally clear.
-
- Posts: 3487
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
- Location: Under Cover
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
Hi the game in question. It is game no.83a in Aitken's Chess Scorebook which is at the Edinburgh Chess Club.
I'm passing this on from Dave Archibald who cannot seem to log on.
I'm passing this on from Dave Archibald who cannot seem to log on.
-
- Posts: 1006
- Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:51 am
Re: Sultan Khan - A newly discovered game and a challenge
This is when the gold coins are showered on the table! Bravo!!