English victories against reigning World Champions

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MJMcCready
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English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:06 am

Leonard Barden wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:35 pm
The baronet, world No1 at badminton, died at 91, in a care home and nearly blind, 44 years ago today. Instead of this cheap jokey post, it would be better to mark the occasion by remembering his triumph at Hastings 1934-35 where he tied for first with Euwe and Flohr, became the only English player ever to beat Capablanca, and was the only player ever to defeat Capablanca and Botvinnik on successive days.
Is there a list of Englishmen and their victories over reigning/former world champions anywhere? I assume that Mr. M.Adams would top the list in terms of world champions he beat.
Last edited by MJMcCready on Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Sir George Alan Thomas

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:28 am

"Is there a list of Englishmen and their victories over reigning/former world champions anywhere? I assume that Mr. M.Adams would top the list in terms of world champions he beat."

Well, I'm not going to trawl through hours of Chessbase searches, but I wouldn't rule out Nigel Short, who has wins against Kasparov for a start. (I'm not including simuls, rapidplay, or blitz.)

J Penrose beat Euwe as well as Tal, and two wins is two more than most people would have achieved then!

Phil Neatherway
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Re: Sir George Alan Thomas

Post by Phil Neatherway » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:56 am

I seem to recall that Miles beat Karpov! The famous 1. ... a6 game.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Sir George Alan Thomas

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:16 pm

Miles also beat Spassky, Tal, and Smyslov if we include ex-champions.

Never managed it against Gazza of course, though he did defeat a young Kramnik (just 14!) and Anand.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Sir George Alan Thomas

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:42 pm

Miles beat Karpov more than once, but wouldn't this discussion be better moved to a new thread?
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Sir George Alan Thomas

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:02 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:42 pm
Miles beat Karpov more than once, but wouldn't this discussion be better moved to a new thread?
Indeed, to some of us his probably lesser known 1983 win was the more impressive.

And yes, probably ;)
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:22 pm

New topic created as requested.

John McKenna
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by John McKenna » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:41 pm

Here's one from the memory 'vaults' (rather than the memory banks) -

At the great Hastings tournament of 1895, J.H. Blackburne was the only Englishman to defeat Em. Lasker (World Champion 1894-1921).
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Paul Cooksey
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:53 pm

If we apply the toughest criteria - a win at classical time control against a reigning world champion I think I have six:
Lasker-Blackburne, Hastings 1895
Lasker-Blackburne, London 1899
Penrose-Tal, Liepzig 1960
Karpov-Miles Skara 1980
Short-Kasparov Brussels 1984
Short-Kasparov London 1993

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:03 pm

What was the time control in the 1983 Miles win?
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David Sedgwick
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:07 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:53 pm
If we apply the toughest criteria - a win at classical time control against a reigning world champion I think I have six:
Lasker-Blackburne, Hastings 1895
Lasker-Blackburne, London 1899
Penrose-Tal, Liepzig 1960
Karpov-Miles Skara 1980
Short-Kasparov Brussels 1984
Short-Kasparov London 1993
Anand - Adams, London Chess Classic 2012

John McKenna
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by John McKenna » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:45 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:03 pm
What was the time control in the 1983 Miles win?
That Miles victory was played in the last of the BBC Master Game series, I believe.

https://en.chessbase.com/post/bbc-the-m ... two-070713

I also believe that the games in the series were deadly serious but played at a considerably faster time rate than "classical".
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Richard Bates
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:54 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:07 pm
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:53 pm
If we apply the toughest criteria - a win at classical time control against a reigning world champion I think I have six:
Lasker-Blackburne, Hastings 1895
Lasker-Blackburne, London 1899
Penrose-Tal, Liepzig 1960
Karpov-Miles Skara 1980
Short-Kasparov Brussels 1984
Short-Kasparov London 1993
Anand - Adams, London Chess Classic 2012
Adams vs Kramnik on more than one occasion, I believe.

Richard Bates
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:05 pm

As well as Vs Anand in 2013

Paul Cooksey
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Re: English victories against World Champions

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:25 pm

I should have included
Adams-Kramnik Wijk 2004
Adams- Kramnik, Sofia 2005
since I agree Kramnik was world champion, even if others would dispute it.

I missed
Adams-Anand, London 2012
Adams-Anand, Paris 2013
becasue I thought Carlsen won the world title in 2012. doh

so up to 10, although I think we have to exclude the mastergame win as rapid.
Last edited by Paul Cooksey on Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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