English victories against reigning World Champions
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Re: English victories against World Champions
The Mastergame in 1983 was played at a time limit of all moves in 2 hours - definitely classical, though at the time the fastest possible rated time limit.
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Re: English victories against World Champions
Thank you for that - I would definitely include it in that case.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
Re: English victories against World Champions
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that some time since the 1980s the minimum time limit for a FIDE-rated game was 2 hrs. and 30 mins. for each player.
Was this subsequently shortened to 2hrs. per player, or was 2 hrs. each always the minimum?
There also seems to be some doubt about the exact definition of "classical".
Below is an extract from an answer to a question posed, elsewhere on the net, in 2014.
Was this subsequently shortened to 2hrs. per player, or was 2 hrs. each always the minimum?
There also seems to be some doubt about the exact definition of "classical".
Below is an extract from an answer to a question posed, elsewhere on the net, in 2014.
The FIDE-approved classical time control is: (taken from the handbook)
07 Time Control There is a single time control for all major FIDE events: 90 minutes for the first 40 moves followed by 30 minutes for the rest of the game with an addition of 30 seconds per move starting from move one.
This time control is used in many major chess events such as the Olympiad, FIDE Grand Prix and World Cup.
Another popular international time control for classical is 90 minutes with a 30 second increment.
The classical time control used in the World chess Championship is: (from Wikipedia) 120 minutes, with 60 minutes added after move 40, 15 minutes added after move 60, and 30 additional seconds per move starting from move 61.
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Re: English victories against World Champions
In the current rules, it's definitely a minimum of 2 hours per player if one of the players has a 2200+ rating. I don't have previous copies of the rules to hand.
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Re: English victories against World Champions
I remember Adams bearing Carlsen at the Olympiad where Carlsen played some ...Nh5 rubbish. Was that when Carlsen was WCh?
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Re: English victories against World Champions
No.Andrew Bak wrote: ↑Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:32 pmI remember Adams bearing Carlsen at the Olympiad where Carlsen played some ...Nh5 rubbish. Was that when Carlsen was WCh?
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Re: English victories against World Champions
A little bit like Victor Berger (not sure if he ever was/became English) defeating Alekhine at Margate in 1937, just before Alekhine regained the title from Euwe?
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Re: English victories against World Champions
Despite missing a one move win of AAA's Queen along the way!John McKenna wrote: ↑Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:15 pmA little bit like Victor Berger (not sure if he ever was/became English) defeating Alekhine at Margate in 1937, just before Alekhine regained the title from Euwe?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
Re: English victories against World Champions
You don't say!
Victor Buerger (Berger) (b. 29 January 1904, in Nikolaev, Ukraine [then Russian Empire] – d. 1996, UK) was a Ukrainian–British player.
So, Victor did not qualify as an 'Englishman' and his salutary victory at Margate, 1937, seems to have been achieved a short time before Alekhine regained the title.
Regarding Tony Miles' Master Game defeat of Karpov - I, too, think it should be included since 2hrs. each is certainly not rapid/quickplay and is an acceptable minimum for rated longplay games.
Here's a past proposal for 'standard' -
https://en.chessbase.com/post/acp-deman ... ols-in-che
Victor Buerger (Berger) (b. 29 January 1904, in Nikolaev, Ukraine [then Russian Empire] – d. 1996, UK) was a Ukrainian–British player.
So, Victor did not qualify as an 'Englishman' and his salutary victory at Margate, 1937, seems to have been achieved a short time before Alekhine regained the title.
Regarding Tony Miles' Master Game defeat of Karpov - I, too, think it should be included since 2hrs. each is certainly not rapid/quickplay and is an acceptable minimum for rated longplay games.
Here's a past proposal for 'standard' -
https://en.chessbase.com/post/acp-deman ... ols-in-che
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Re: English victories against World Champions
That was in 2010, when Mickey was feeling unwell!NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:55 pmNo.Andrew Bak wrote: ↑Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:32 pmI remember Adams bearing Carlsen at the Olympiad where Carlsen played some ...Nh5 rubbish. Was that when Carlsen was WCh?
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Re: English victories against World Champions
Untrue.
I played Victor Buerger in the zonal qualifier for the 1950 British Championship, where he scored 6/11 in the championship proper at Buxton.
As can be seen from John Saunders's crosstable in Britbase, Buxton 1950 ranked alongside Plymouth 1957 as the strongest and most competitive British championship in the first decade after the Swiss system replaced all-play-alls in 1949.
http://www.saund.co.uk/britbase/pgn/195 ... iewer.html
I've no reason to doubt that Victor Buerger was a British citizen in 1950, and indeed he seems listed as a home competitor much earlier, at London 1927 and Hastings 1927-28.
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Re: English victories against World Champions
A naturalisation certificate for a Victor Buerger, from Russia, resident in London, was issued on 11 June 1927.
(source: National Archives catalogue: re HO 334/105/14830)
(source: National Archives catalogue: re HO 334/105/14830)
Re: English victories against World Champions
Ah, but that raises the old thorny question - can an 'Englishman' ever be a naturalized Brit?
To answer that myself - some say yea, some nay.
The whole thing is academic - unless we are prepared to include Victor's victory, at the end of an interregnum over a champion awaiting imminent restoration, as good enough to merit it?
With thanks to Leonard and John T for the info.
To answer that myself - some say yea, some nay.
The whole thing is academic - unless we are prepared to include Victor's victory, at the end of an interregnum over a champion awaiting imminent restoration, as good enough to merit it?
With thanks to Leonard and John T for the info.
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Re: English victories against World Champions
Isodur Gunsberg became a British Citizen in 1908. Also sued the Evening Standard & won.
So why are we excluding his 4 wins against Steinitz in a World Championship.
Why exclude Battersea's strongest ever player?
So why are we excluding his 4 wins against Steinitz in a World Championship.
Why exclude Battersea's strongest ever player?
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Re: English victories against World Champions
Gunsberg wasn't a British citizen at the time he played Steinitz, though, which I think is the criterion people are using here to determine whether these games count.