English victories against reigning World Champions

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:06 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:39 am
MJMcCready wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:29 am
Did an Englishman ever beat Botvinnik?
Raymond Keene did at Hastings when Botvinnik blundered a rook to a short combination. That was after Botvinnik had lost his title.
Thanks, I didn't know that. And I think the only Englishman to beat Petrosian was Nunn wasn't it?

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 5251
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:03 pm

Yes, that is correct - and it only took 20-odd moves too!
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:11 pm

Just looked at the game. It is rather strange. At worst he drops the exchange. Is that enough to justify resignation?

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21322
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:58 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:11 pm
Just looked at the game. It is rather strange. At worst he drops the exchange. Is that enough to justify resignation?
Checking with an engine, there are some alarming follow-ups.

For example after 20. .. Ne5 21. Bb5 Qe8 22. Bf4 Nf7 23. Bxe8 Qxe8 there's 24. d6


User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:25 pm

I wonder why they count him as Armenian in 1982. There was no Armenia then, it was part of the USSR.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:37 pm

While we're at it, which Englishman have beaten Spassky?

Nick Ivell
Posts: 1139
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by Nick Ivell » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:12 pm

Off the top of my head, Miles beat Spassky twice. One of those games was a cracker.

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:26 pm

Probably a database that uses modern countries for all players, even if not appropriate to the time period of the game in question.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:29 pm


User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:01 am

That's quite some victory.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 5839
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:48 am

John Nunn's move 18 and 19 are rather Petrosianic aren't they?

Neil Blackburn
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by Neil Blackburn » Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:58 pm

Both Tony's wins against Spassky were wonderful games.

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:38 pm

What was the first instance of an Englishman beating a world champion?

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21322
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:51 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:38 pm
What was the first instance of an Englishman beating a world champion?
World Champion current or World Champion past or future?

I seem to recall that Penrose's win against Tal in 1960 was hailed as the first English win against a current world champion in the 20th century.

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: English victories against reigning World Champions

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:54 pm

Yes, that's what I thought, certainly against the current world champion but I am not sure if a Brit beat Capablanca after he lost his title.