Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

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Frank Kamau
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Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Frank Kamau » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:40 pm

In the following position on move 47 as black Pribanich rated 169 made the move 47 ...Qc2 and pressed his clock.
Image

We had made the 35 moves for the first time control and now presumably the game was under rapidlay rules.

When I noticed this was an illegal move I told him so and still with my clock running he then changed his move to 47 ..Qd1 and claimed that this was even better. The noise attracted the other players and the clocks were paused. He then pushed all the pieces over the board and stormed off.

Has this ever happened to any of you? Is the player subject to any sanctions in the league (if the rules allow for this)?
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:37 pm

The game is a standard play game and so standard play rules apply throughout: you are entitled to an extra two minutes and your opponent must make a legal move with his queen.

Pushing all the pieces off the board and storming off is an offence for which I'd expect most arbiters to at the very least award a loss for the player, and banning him from the entire competition would be within the bounds of reasonable strictness; I'd say the league is perfectly entitled to apply sanctions if it wishes.

Sean Hewitt

Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:59 pm

Jack is of course correct. The penalty for the illegal move is a 2 minute time penalty and the player having to move the touched piece (if legal to do so).

The game is a standard play game so is played under standard play rules for the entire duration of the game. Not that that makes any difference to the situation in this case anyway.

Frank Kamau
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Frank Kamau » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:15 pm

Here are the rules of the league http://www.norchess.lloydbunday.co.uk/skrules.html
Northampton Rules wrote:5. (a) All matches shall commence at 7:30 pm and shall be played with clocks. The time limit shall be 35 moves in one and a quarter hours. Following black's 35th move the clocks shall be turned back by one quarter of an hour and the match shall be played to a finish.
The conduct of the quickplay finish shall be governed by the British Chess Federation Quickplay Finish Rules and by the additional rules for events which do not have an arbiter. All players are required to familiarise themselves with these rules.
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Sean Hewitt

Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:33 pm

Frank Kamau wrote:Here are the rules of the league http://www.norchess.lloydbunday.co.uk/skrules.html
Northampton Rules wrote:5. (a) All matches shall commence at 7:30 pm and shall be played with clocks. The time limit shall be 35 moves in one and a quarter hours. Following black's 35th move the clocks shall be turned back by one quarter of an hour and the match shall be played to a finish.
The conduct of the quickplay finish shall be governed by the British Chess Federation Quickplay Finish Rules and by the additional rules for events which do not have an arbiter. All players are required to familiarise themselves with these rules.
Perhaps you could provide a link to the "British Chess Federation Quickplay Finish Rules"?

Considering the British Chess Federation is simply a financial body which has no Quickplay Finish Rules (or other rules to do with actually playing chess), that might prove tricky!

Which means all Northamptonshire players fall foul of
Northampton Rules wrote:All players are required to familiarise themselves with these rules.
The rules in Northampton make no sense!

Frank Kamau
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Frank Kamau » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:46 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote: The rules in Northampton make no sense!
LOL! I found the FIDE laws of chess http://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf
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E Michael White
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by E Michael White » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:11 pm

Frank Kamau wrote:Here are the rules of the league http://www.norchess.lloydbunday.co.uk/skrules.html
Northampton Rules wrote:5. (a) All matches shall commence at 7:30 pm and shall be played with clocks. The time limit shall be 35 moves in one and a quarter hours. Following black's 35th move the clocks shall be turned back by one quarter of an hour and the match shall be played to a finish.
The conduct of the quickplay finish shall be governed by the British Chess Federation Quickplay Finish Rules and by the additional rules for events which do not have an arbiter. All players are required to familiarise themselves with these rules.
The BCF QPF rules do indeed exist although most competitions have switched to FIDE rules since 2001. A version of the BCF rules is reproduced in the BCF Year Book 1993. Several MCCU tournaments continued to use BCF QPF rules long after the new FIDE rules came into being in 2001.

All competitions which reference BCF QPF rules in their constitutions or rules should change these to current FIDE rules. Major differences under the BCF QPF rules were:-

1. Any number of illegal moves can be made without loss and without a time penalty if no arbiter is present.
2. The definition of mating material is different along with many other things.
3. The BCF Tournament Rules (another set of rules) apply during the QPF period.
4. The 1993 FIDE rules apply during the QPF ( ie not current rules). Which means among others a player can write down his move before playing it during the QPF period.
Last edited by E Michael White on Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:15 pm

Frank Kamau wrote: Image

When I noticed this was an illegal move I told him so and still with my clock running he then changed his move to 47 ..Qd1 and claimed that this was even better.
Isn't Black totally busted? One idea after 47 .. Qd1 is 48 a5 Qc2 49 a6 b2 50 q7 b1Q 51 Qxb1 Qxb1 52 a8Q+ which is QBPPP v QPP. You can also stop b2 by putting the Bishop on d4 and then playing to queen the a pawn. Was White in any way really short of time?

Pushing the pieces off the board is an unpleasant way of resigning.

Frank Kamau
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Frank Kamau » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:27 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Isn't Black totally busted? One idea after 47 .. Qd1 is 48 a5 Qc2 49 a6 b2 50 q7 b1Q 51 Qxb1 Qxb1 52 a8Q+ which is QBPPP v QPP. You can also stop b2 by putting the Bishop on d4 and then playing to queen the a pawn. Was White in any way really short of time?

Pushing the pieces off the board is an unpleasant way of resigning.
It was one of the new digital clocks so I had 5 minutes to get to 0 then the 15 minutes added on automatically and he had 10 mins to get to 0 (then the 15 minutes added on ). With almost 20 minutes on the clock I would have had no difficulty in claiming the full point unless my opponent could come up with an illegal resource!

Pushing over his pieces and storming off is ungentlemanly conduct. FIDE need to put an immediate forfeit and ban in the rules. Reminds me of the Cheparinov controversy.
Handshake controversy wrote:During the 2008 Corus chess tournament, Cheparinov's game in the eighth round of Group B against Nigel Short was declared a forfeit after the first move because he had twice refused to shake Short's hand at the start.[6] After Cheparinov refused to shake hands, Short informed the arbiter that in such cases, the rules prescribe an immediate forfeit (Short claims that the arbiter was not aware of this rule and had had to be reminded of it).[7] Cheparinov's team claimed the arbiter was not aware of the rule since there is no such rule.[8] The Topalov - Kramnik game at the same tournament started without a handshake, although in that case neither player 'refused' a handshake since neither had offered one.[9] FIDE's behavioural norms state that, "[a]ny player who does not shake hands with the opponent (...) before the game starts in a FIDE tournament or during a FIDE match (and does not do it after being asked to do so by the arbiter) (...) will immediately and finally lose the relevant game.[10]

The reason for Cheparinov's refusal was, according to the appeal made by him and his manager Silvio Danailov, that "some time ago in one of his interviews Mr. Short insulted him and our team gravely". They also claimed the arbiter had not given Cheparinov another opportunity to shake hands, but had immediately declared the game a loss.[11] After their protest, the Appeals Committee of the tournament—consisting of Vladimir Kramnik, Michał Krasenkow and Judit Polgár—overturned the decision to forfeit the game. The Committee also decided that Cheparinov should apologize to Short, that the game was to be replayed the next day and that it should start with a handshake.[12] Short won.

The handshake incident was recorded on video, and posted by chess website Chessdom on YouTube, where it was viewed over 150,000 times.[13][14]
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Graham Borrowdale

Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:35 pm

At first I thought maybe it could be put down to a bad day at the office, but when I noticed the name of your opponent I have to say I am not surprised to read your report...

Frank Kamau
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Frank Kamau » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:39 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote:At first I thought maybe it could be put down to a bad day at the office, but when I noticed the name of your opponent I have to say I am not surprised to read your report...
LOL! Are you from Northampton? p.m. me if you have had any such experiences.
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David Shepherd
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by David Shepherd » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:04 pm

How longs he been playing in Northampton - I kind of recognise the name in my failing memory?

Sean Hewitt

Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:17 pm

Frank Kamau wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote: The rules in Northampton make no sense!
LOL! I found the FIDE laws of chess http://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf
Not much use when you're not playing to the FIDE laws of chess that the rest of us use. You're playing to the non-existent BCF rules!
E Michael White wrote:The BCF QPF rules do indeed exist although most competitions have switched to FIDE rules since 2001. A version of the BCF rules is reproduced in the BCF Year Book 1993.
Wrong tense Michael. The BCF QPF rules did exist. They don't now.

E Michael White
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by E Michael White » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:27 pm

.
Sean Hewitt wrote:Wrong tense Michael. The BCF QPF rules did exist. They don't now.
When were they scrapped then ? Do you have a link which says as much ?

If Tournaments and Leagues want to play to old rules or any alternative ruleset they can do. If said MCCU League rules reference old ruleset then they must exist in the current rules of said League !

The BCF QPF rules must still exist by definition. MCCU officials cant decide that they no longer exist ! They could decide that in all events where the rules mention BCF QPF that should be taken to be current FIDE rules but why not just say FIDE rules in the first place ?

Sean Hewitt

Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:37 pm

E Michael White wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote:Wrong tense Michael. The BCF QPF rules did exist. They don't now.
When were they scrapped then ?
Sorry if you missed it. They were scrapped when the BCF ceased to be a National governing body, passing it's responsibilities in that regard to the ECF. The only thing the BCF does now is financial. Write to them and ask if you don't believe me.
E Michael White wrote:If said MCCU League rules reference old ruleset then they must exist in the current rules of said League !
What tosh. By the same logic if I reference something that doesn't exist (say, £1m in my current account) then it must exist. If only that were true!

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