Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
E Michael White
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by E Michael White » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:47 pm

Thats not a very good analogy as you are comparing to a measured value not a concept. Tosh Tosh.

When former president Clinton was being charged in the USA, the American legislators had to look at the meaning of out of date phrases and English Common Law from several hundred years earlier because phrases such as "High Crimes and Misdemeanours" and other early Common Law concepts were built into the current American Constitution. The USA were of course in charge of their own constitution and had taken over governing the country in the same way that the ECF took over the BCF but with a little more skill. Thats a decent analogy.
Sean Hewitt wrote: Well, I'll let others judge ...................that if something is referenced to then it must exist.

Provided the concept exists at the time of referencing it must continue for the currency of the document that makes the reference even though the reference would be more sensibly changed to FIDE rules.
Last edited by E Michael White on Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Sean Hewitt

Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:54 pm

E Michael White wrote:Thats not a very good analogy as you are comparing to a measured value not a concept
So, the rules are merely a concept now. Ok. Well, I'll let others judge the value of the analogy and your assertion that if something is referenced to then it must exist.

Michael Jones
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Michael Jones » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:01 pm

Frank Kamau wrote:When I noticed this was an illegal move I told him so and still with my clock running he then changed his move to 47 ..Qd1 and claimed that this was even better. The noise attracted the other players and the clocks were paused. He then pushed all the pieces over the board and stormed off.

Has this ever happened to any of you? Is the player subject to any sanctions in the league (if the rules allow for this)?
The illegal move would be covered in the rules; knocking the pieces off the board probably wouldn't be specifically, although there might be some reference to 'unsportsmanlike conduct' or similar. It's the sort of thing that I'd expect kids to grow out of doing before they leave primary school - for any adult doing it I'd say being banned from the league for the rest of the season wouldn't be unreasonable.

Simon Spivack
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Simon Spivack » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:04 pm

Frank Kamau wrote:He then pushed all the pieces over the board and stormed off.

Has this ever happened to any of you?
I partly brought it on myself when this happened to me in the early eighties. I do recall my opponent's name and the match, however, I won't reveal it as he no longer plays chess and, for all I know, this may have been an aberration on his part.

It happened in the Middlesex Team tournament. For some reason I had convinced myself that the first round began at ten-thirty in the morning. I always aim to arrive early, however, when it rains, it pours, so, owing to traffic, I turned up just over ten minutes late, or so I thought. Unfortunately, the round began at ten! My opponent, as was his right, had claimed the default after half an hour, this being a tournament specific modification to the then FIDE laws of chess.

My appearance prompted my opponent to decide that he did, after all, want to play chess. Something both captains agreed to. To maximise the chance of the "right" result, he deducted more time from my clock, so that I was an hour behind. I acquiesced and we began the game. After twenty moves or so, it dawned upon my opponent that the position on the board was not at all to his advantage, indeed, it was completely lost, something that had been obvious for three or four moves. He therefore offered me a draw. I declined the offer. Then came the show, punctuated, as it was, by a sibilant word rhyming with "Brit", a consonant substitution involving "hunt" and so on. His embarrassed team mates apologised after his departure.

Michael Jones
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Michael Jones » Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:58 pm

Simon Spivack wrote:a sibilant word rhyming with "Brit"
I can recall at least two opponents who've uttered that word during a game, although in both cases to themselves out of frustration rather than directed at me. I gently told one of them afterwards that it wasn't such a good idea, because prior to his exclamation I hadn't noticed that the move he'd just played was a serious blunder.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:35 am

"Then came the show, punctuated, as it was, by a sibilant word rhyming with "Brit", a consonant substitution involving "hunt" and so on. His embarrassed team mates apologised after his departure."

I won a game on default some years ago, when we sportingly started 15 minutes late, and when 30 minutes had elapsed, I drifted off into another room to play blitz. My opponent then arrived ten minutes later and demanded to play. I pointed out it was past default time, and he started screaming at me that he was only ten minutes late - I pointed out he was actually 55 minutes late. He went quiet in due course, (he had to stay - he was the captain!) and rather touchingly, ALL the opposing players at some stage in the evening came over for a friendly chat. They didn't openly apologise (possibly as he was still there), but I did feel they were not impressed with him. Now when I have a win on default, I am out of the door a few seconds later!

I think the league rules now say that default time is 30 minutes after the official start time, so if you start late, default time may be with 15 minutes on the clock.

Having played Simon a couple of times, a lot of his moves are so good, you want to scream abuse!
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

Brian Valentine
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Brian Valentine » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:22 am

Hi Kevin,
My guess is that it's about 30 years ago and it was such an unusual extreme reaction that I still remeber it well. So much so that when I got a similar situation this year I deliberately stopped the clock after 30 mins (plus the 15 mins delayed start) and left the building for a while to avoid such an incident.

I can add my listed opponent hadn't a chance of making it as he was in A&E at the time. And just to show things can go differently he had the decency to ring up a few days later to apologise and explain.

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Gareth Harley-Yeo
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Gareth Harley-Yeo » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:46 am

I played a game last night where my opponent moved twice! I was white and the game went 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 Bf5?

Whilst writing my opponent’s move and trying to decide whether to exploit his error with 7.Qb3 or the immediate Bxf6 my opponent realised his mistake and played 7…Nbd7 (before I’d made my move).

Fortunately as the game hadn’t got too far it wasn’t difficult to point out he’d moved twice after which he simply placed the Knight back on b8 and awaiting his punishment.

I’ve never had this happen to me before but I’m sure it would catch out the odd unsuspecting junior.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:59 pm

Did you claim the extra 2 minutes for the illegal move? :wink:

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Gareth Harley-Yeo
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Gareth Harley-Yeo » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:53 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:Did you claim the extra 2 minutes for the illegal move? :wink:
Damn! I knew I was forgetting something! Live and learn eigh.
8)

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:18 pm

Gareth Harley-Yeo wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:Did you claim the extra 2 minutes for the illegal move? :wink:
Damn! I knew I was forgetting something! Live and learn eigh.
8)
I had the same situation in the 4NCL. My opponent (himself a BCF Arbiter), made two moves in a row. I adjusted my piece without saying j'adoube (fine, as I had no intention of moving the piece - I poked the base of a pawn backwards with my index finger). He was too busy writing his move down, and not concentrating on what I was doing. Given I was two minutes late for the start - too busy finishing off some inputting - I managed to get those two minutes back. 8)

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David Shepherd
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by David Shepherd » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:48 pm

Even Nigel Short did the same thing a few months ago and tried the two moves in a row trick :)

William Metcalfe
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by William Metcalfe » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:50 pm

I once had a opponent throw my dark Squared bishop at me after a game the Bishop had tortured him the whole game long and was involved in the final checkmate
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:49 am

Before tonight, I couldn't remember the last time someone made an illegal move in a game against me, but it happened tonight. I was away from the board, but I came back when my opponent seemed to want to say something to me. When I sat down (not having looked at the board yet) he apologetically pointed out that he had put his knight on the wrong square when moving it. This calmed me down as the square he had put the knight on forked my king and one of my pawns. I would have noticed, of course, but it might have taken a bit of frantic checking of the scoresheet to make sure I wasn't going crazy. As I was winning and the time control had long passed, I just said "Oh, put the knight back and make a move", and didn't bother to claim any extra time. He did move the knight, though I actually forgot to say that he must move the knight.

Changing subject completely, a mobile phone went off earlier in the evening. In this league (the Thames Valley League) the rule is that the second such incident from the same player loses the game. But it seems to be happening quite a lot now. It can be distracting if it happens at the wrong moment. Maybe there should be a rule that you gain time on the clock or something the first time it happens. Something to discourage it. On the same subject (if you forget to check before the game starts), is it acceptable to check your mobile phone during a game to make sure it is switched off?

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Opponent Made An Illegal Move In A League Game

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:38 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:is it acceptable to check your mobile phone during a game to make sure it is switched off?
Just go to the toilet/bathroom and check. It's the tree-falling-in-the-woods one...

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