Etiquette of resigning

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
Alex Holowczak
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 11, 2011 11:43 am

I often wonder why resigning became etiquette. Presumably in the days of 40/150 + 16/60 ad infinitum, resigning was in your interest, or you could be asked to sit there for another 4 hours/2 sessions as your opponent finally mates you. I doubt many people resign in blitz, nor would it be seen as bad etiquette not to. Perhaps the desire to resign is proportional to the increased length of the game?

Sean Hewitt

Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed May 11, 2011 11:53 am

There are not too many games where the concept of resigning exists. You can't resign a football match because you are 5-0 (or worse) down at half time!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 11, 2011 12:15 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:There are not too many games where the concept of resigning exists. You can't resign a football match because you are 5-0 (or worse) down at half time!
Team games are different, so the only valid comparisons are to one against one competitions. Boxers can retire from a fight, can they not? Lawn Tennis players can concede through injury. In racing events, runners can drop out.

So isn't it the other way round, that it's only in team events that the potential loser is unable to concede early.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed May 11, 2011 1:04 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote:There are not too many games where the concept of resigning exists. You can't resign a football match because you are 5-0 (or worse) down at half time!
Team games are different, so the only valid comparisons are to one against one competitions. Boxers can retire from a fight, can they not? Lawn Tennis players can concede through injury. In racing events, runners can drop out.

So isn't it the other way round, that it's only in team events that the potential loser is unable to concede early.
Players can - indeed in some situations are expected - to concede frames in snooker and holes in match play golf.

Also the etiquette is to concede if you're way behind in a teams of four bridge match. It might, for instance, be played over 32 boards, split into four segments of 8. If after 24 boards you have no realistic chance of recovering your deficit over the remaining 8, it would be very bad form not to concede.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 11, 2011 1:19 pm

David Sedgwick wrote: Players can - indeed in some situations are expected - to concede frames in snooker and holes in match play golf.

Also the etiquette is to concede if you're way behind in a teams of four bridge match. It might, for instance, be played over 32 boards, split into four segments of 8. If after 24 boards you have no realistic chance of recovering your deficit over the remaining 8, it would be very bad form not to concede.
There's really quite a long list.

It's worth keeping these in mind in case this rather stupid proposal ever gains favour with FIDE.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5060

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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 11, 2011 1:19 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:You can't resign a football match because you are 5-0 (or worse) down at half time!
But you can bring on 3 rubbish subs, get 5 players sent off (including the 3 rubbish players so key players are not banned), and only lose 3-0 by default. :idea:

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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 11, 2011 1:21 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:It's worth keeping these in mind in case this rather stupid proposal ever gains favour with FIDE.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5060
If FIDE did say that, people would just leave the board until they lose on time, and probably let their opponent know what they were doing. So it'll never get anywhere.

Brian Valentine
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Brian Valentine » Wed May 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Team games are different, so the only valid comparisons are to one against one competitions
While this is a good attempt at delineation. There is the Darrel Hair incident in cricket and also I have often seen a judicious early call of time in one sided (usually junior) rugby matches. I also consider league chess as a team event.

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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Steve Rooney » Wed May 11, 2011 1:49 pm

A number of the examples above relate to situations where a player concedes because they can no longer win. In chess a large material advantage may be decisive but it is not enough to win the game on its own - unless you're playing in the early stages of the UK Chess Challenge which has a 3-point and above rule.

I don't see anything wrong in battling it out till the bitter end. You often see players resign early in they blunder a piece in the opening, but if you enjoy playing chess rather than just focus on the result, there may be a good reason to carry on and plenty of opportunity to conjure up tricks and magic on the board. It's not unrelated to the discussion about agreeing draws in what are deemed "dead drawn" positions as mentioned in another thread today.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 11, 2011 2:00 pm

Brian Valentine wrote: There is the Darrel Hair incident in cricket
In cricket you can cite declaration - you concede all your remaining wickets for no runs. Also but subject to censure, refusing to restart the match after a break.
Brian Valentine wrote:
I also consider league chess as a team event.

Match captains are allowed to agree package deals, so a match could be terminated early by agreement of the captains. Of course it's usually adjournment and adjudication leagues where games are traded in this way, and only after suspension of play.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed May 11, 2011 2:35 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:In cricket you can cite declaration - you concede all your remaining wickets for no runs..
That's not comparable to resigning a chess game at all. Its usually an attempt to win the game (to give yourself time, you hope, to bowl out your opponents before time runs out and the match is drawn, at the risk of them scoring runs quicker than you expected so they win).
Roger de Coverly wrote:Match captains are allowed to agree package deals, so a match could be terminated early by agreement of the captains.
Not in any event I know of. All captains can do is advise their players to offer or accept draws, or to resign. It's the player's decision alone whether to comply or not.

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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed May 11, 2011 2:43 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:Match captains are allowed to agree package deals, so a match could be terminated early by agreement of the captains.
Not in any event I know of. All captains can do is advise their players to offer or accept draws, or to resign. It's the player's decision alone whether to comply or not.
Well, here's an example of a league that permits it.

15. In all games unfinished at the agreed adjournment time ... (blah blah blah adjournments) ... The unfinished games may now be decided in one of the following three ways as follows:
(b) By mutual agreement between the two Captains, but the result must reach the Competitions Secretary within 14 days of the playing of the game, failing which it will be scored a loss to both sides.

So this permits a captain to do a package deal.

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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 11, 2011 2:46 pm

Ian Thompson wrote: Not in any event I know of. All captains can do is advise their players to offer or accept draws, or to resign. It's the player's decision alone whether to comply or not.
It's over ten years since I've played in an event with adjudication or adjournment. Back in the past when such rules where commonplace, it was not unknown for package deals to be agreed either to avoid travelling in the case of adjournments or fees in the case of adjudications. Old Olympiad reports contain mention of package deals. More recently there have still been examples of all four players in a match in the Olympiads suddenly agreeing to draw.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed May 18, 2011 7:12 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Ian Thompson wrote: Not in any event I know of. All captains can do is advise their players to offer or accept draws, or to resign. It's the player's decision alone whether to comply or not.
It's over ten years since I've played in an event with adjudication or adjournment. Back in the past when such rules where commonplace, it was not unknown for package deals to be agreed either to avoid travelling in the case of adjournments or fees in the case of adjudications. Old Olympiad reports contain mention of package deals. More recently there have still been examples of all four players in a match in the Olympiads suddenly agreeing to draw.
One match I was involved in (and was captaining one of the teams), a draw offer in one game was made with the condition/suggestion that all the other games would be agreed drawn (this was the last round of the competition). It certainly wasted some time as I tried to work out what was going on. The match did finish 2-2 with 4 draws agreed (we were worse on one of the boards and better on another one), something I regret now. I would prefer to look back on that and think that all the games were played out properly. If I had this situation again, I would almost certainly decline the "offer" and instruct my players to play out all the games.

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John Clarke
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by John Clarke » Wed May 18, 2011 11:28 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:Match captains are allowed to agree package deals, so a match could be terminated early by agreement of the captains.
Not in any event I know of. All captains can do is advise their players to offer or accept draws, or to resign. It's the player's decision alone whether to comply or not.
Unless there's been a radical change since I was active in chess, the match captain of any team has always been empowered to agree draws or other results on behalf of his players after adjournment - in UK league chess as well as Olympiads. I was a beneficiary of this on more than one occasion when I had a dubious-looking position at the call of time.

Usually the motive was to avoid faffing around with adjudications, which although they normally went the way expected, could every now and then inexplicably result in, say, a draw where a win had been anticipated. Not to mention the expense, of course, especially where there were multiple unfinished games in the match.

However: match captains at my main club would in practice leave it to the player concerned to decide whether he wanted to press for a win or whatever - strictly on the understanding that he stumped up personally for the adjudication fee if the result didn't go his way. I did get one rather ill-deserved half-point by holding out like this, at which point, apparently, the opposing captain decided to concede the draw after all.

It was no go, though, when I tried this on one time with my team in the Civil Service League. There was a clear win to be had and I made it plain I wanted it claimed. I was a pawn up at adjournment with an obvious space advantage as well and no weaknesses - hard to understand, in fact, why the opposition was contesting the position at all. Perhaps they understood my team officials better than I did! Because the next I heard about it the club secretary (not even the captain, who supported my stance) had taken it on himself to concede the draw willy-nilly, mainly to save on effort and paperwork, and hadn't even had the bottle to tell me he'd done so. Relations were distinctly frosty from that time on.
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

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