Etiquette of resigning

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:55 am

Alex Holowczak wrote: I don't know whether this procedure is still written anywhere, but if someone offers to shake your hand at the start of a game, you risk being defaulted if you don't shake it at the highest level.

It was something of an ad hoc addition to the Laws of Chess by the FIDE President. To this day, I doubt if it has gone through the official channels.

Alan Burke

Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:02 am

Alex - If the game had to be eventually played and with the default for Cheparinov not shaking hands having been reversed, surely the ruling was made that shaking hands was not compulsory ? If the procedure is not written down then surely players could claim they do not know of this 'procedure' ?

Roger - for '"unwritten rule", I suppose the phrase "etiquette of the game" could equally be applied ?

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alex McFarlane » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:03 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:I would suggest that the unwritten rule is that you resign when all hope of at least drawing the game has disappeared. So you continue play in a totally lost position only where you doubt your opponent's competence or where your opponent is really short of time
I would add that the same unwritten rule would also allow players, so short of time themselves that they cannot confirm how bad their position is, to play on.

This certainly happens on a fair number of occasions, and provided the resignation comes shortly after the time control, neither player considers the actions to be lacking in etiquette.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:12 am

Alan Burke wrote:Alex - If the game had to be eventually played and with the default for Cheparinov not shaking hands having been reversed, surely the ruling was made that shaking hands was not compulsory ? If the procedure is not written down then surely players could claim they do not know of this 'procedure' ?
It was published on the FIDE website, so it was written down. It isn't in the Laws of Chess, but it might be tucked away elsewhere in the FIDE Handbook. I've never bothered to search for it. What Roger suggests is probably quite likely.

I can't comment on the appeal, because I don't know the details of it. They could have decided:
(1) It wasn't part of the Laws of Chess (i.e. it wasn't a rule, it was just somewhere else); it hadn't gone through the requisite legal stuff.
(2) Cheparinov wasn't aware it was compulsory, due to improper notification of the rule. If it was just tucked away on the website, it may not have been announced as a rule at the tournament itself, or in Cheparinov's contract.

Alan Burke

Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:23 am

Fair enough Alex. However, what will you do at this year's British Championships if a player does not shake your hand before a match - are you going to seek out the FIDE rule to see if you could try and win the game by default ? However, if that rule does not apply at the British, would you still expect your opponent to shake your hand - and what would be your feelings if they didn't ?

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:04 am

Alan Burke wrote:Fair enough Alex. However, what will you do at this year's British Championships if a player does not shake your hand before a match - are you going to seek out the FIDE rule to see if you could try and win the game by default ? However, if that rule does not apply at the British, would you still expect your opponent to shake your hand - and what would be your feelings if they didn't ?
In all the years I've played, that only happened once in a junior game against some awkward kid. The teacher saw it and defaulted him straight away.

So I don't know how I'd feel. I remember thinking something to the effect of "serves him right", and went to buy some chocolate from the vending machine. 8)

Alan Burke

Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:25 am

Alex - I suppose at Sheffield you will substitute 'chocolate vending machine' for 'nearest bar' ?

However, I am sure you agree - and this is what my original post on this thread refered to - that although there are rules that must be applied when playing the game (of any sport), there are also certain accepted practices that players unofficially agree to so that the competition is played in a 'sporting manner'. OK, sanctions can not really be applied by the authorities if those practices are not followed, but the reputation of those players who don't agree to them is somewhat tarnished.

Simon Dixon
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Simon Dixon » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:32 pm

Alan Burke wrote:

Similarly. I am sure most chess players would not appreciate being made to sit (or walk around) for a long period of time just waiting for their opponent to make a move but when in a totally lost position - that is NOT within the etiquette of the game !
You said your opponent had 7 minutes remaining, that is hardly a long period of time by any stretch of the imagination.

Alan Burke

Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:36 pm

Simon Dixon - whether it was 7 minutes or 70 minutes makes no difference to the situation. Yes, on this occasion it was 7 minutes, but suppose it happened early in a 7 hour match and the opponent was supposed to wait for over 3 hours; would you think that is still acceptable ? Yes, in the laws of the game the player maybe has done nothing wrong, but surely everyone wants to play in the spirit of the game as well as by the rules. By the way, just to be totally factual, I never said it was 'my opponent' who had 7 minutes remaining, I simply said it happened in a game

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:52 pm

Alan Burke wrote: Yes, on this occasion it was 7 minutes, but suppose it happened early in a 7 hour match and the opponent was supposed to wait for over 3 hours; would you think that is still acceptable
The maximum you would have to wait would be two hours because the first time control is after two hours at the latest.

There was an international precedent a couple of years ago.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/ ... HB20090904
In that case the time control was 90 minutes with 30 second increments. You lose when your clock runs to zero.

If an opponent walks out without being prepared to sign off the result, perhaps the best solution is to summon the arbiter to observe the flag fall and then award the game. An arbiter wishing to maintain standards might even declare that the absent player had withdrawn from the tournament. You aren't going to avoid sitting it out until the flag falls unless the arbiter forfeits the opponent for leaving the playing venue.

Simon Dixon
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Simon Dixon » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:28 pm

whether it was 7 minutes or 70 minutes makes no difference to the situation. Yes, on this occasion it was 7 minutes, but suppose it happened early in a 7 hour match and the opponent was supposed to wait for over 3 hours; would you think that is still acceptable ?
I can see what is happening here, creating hypotheticals. Use a bit of common sense please, if the opponent says he is not playing on then claim a win.
If an opponent walks out without being prepared to sign off the result, perhaps the best solution is to summon the arbiter to observe the flag fall and then award the game.
Or better still, if the arbiter has any sense, if such a thing were to happen s/he should issue a warning with a view to disqualification for any further infractions of this imaginary nature.

Simon Dixon
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Simon Dixon » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:42 pm

I wonder what you could do if an opponent sat at the board for 7 hours without making a move.

And then when you claim a win the opponent says, oh I thought it was your turn to move. :lol:

Alan Burke

Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alan Burke » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:48 pm

Yes Roger, I totally agree that nothing can be done officially as long as the player is complying to the rules of the game. I suppose it is just a matter of how that player might wish their reputation to be judged by not doing things in the 'spirit of the game'.

Simon - a hypothetical situation maybe, but as you thought to wait 7 minutes was not too long period of time, I am just asking how long you would be willing to wait for the clock to run its course ? If 7 minutes is not too long a time, then is 10 minutes; 15 minutes; 30 minutes; 45 minutes ???

I was merely replying to your comment of "what etiquette ?", which seemed to imply that you felt that rules were rules and that players should not ever consider also playing in the 'spirit of the game'.

In the case I mentioned, the player said he did not wish to resign but just said to let the clock run down - and all I wished to find out was what others thought about the situation.

Simon Dixon
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Simon Dixon » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:15 pm

I am just asking how long you would be willing to wait for the clock to run its course ? If 7 minutes is not too long a time, then is 10 minutes; 15 minutes; 30 minutes; 45 minutes ???
Alan- It matters not one iota to me, I would be too busy celebrating to take any notice of a sore loser.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Etiquette of resigning

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:34 pm

I never resign in Blitz, because I don't see the point; you're only going to be there for a few extra minutes. It's no big deal.

I played a Blitz game tonight that was drawn, even though I was K+plenty v K down. He played pawn to a1, and pressed his clock without replacing it with a queen, which was an illegal move. I thus drew the game, because he'd completed an illegal move, but I had no means of winning the game by any series of legal moves.

Always worth being on the ball in blitz. :wink:

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