Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
Niall Doran
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Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Niall Doran » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:52 pm

Hi all!

I've been playing the KID against 1. d4 (also against 1. Nf3 and 1. c4, weather permitting) since I began playing over ten years ago, but I'm starting to think that maybe it's an unsuitable opening for the average club player, as there are tonnes of variations and it's quite theory-laden. It seems that in certain games, if I misremember the theory and play an inaccurate move, I just end up with a really uncomfortable game, with very little space and no counter-play.

While obviously there's no such thing as a free lunch i.e. easy to play opening with little theory to learn, what does anyone else here think about this? Has anyone here gone from the KID to other openings? Am I kidding myself (pun intended) that other openings would be easier? Is the KID unsuitable for the average chesser?

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:01 pm

Niall Doran wrote:Hi all!

I've been playing the KID against 1. d4 (also against 1. Nf3 and 1. c4, weather permitting) since I began playing over ten years ago, but I'm starting to think that maybe it's an unsuitable opening for the average club player, as there are tonnes of variations and it's quite theory-laden. It seems that in certain games, if I misremember the theory and play an inaccurate move, I just end up with a really uncomfortable game, with very little space and no counter-play.

While obviously there's no such thing as a free lunch i.e. easy to play opening with little theory to learn, what does anyone else here think about this? Has anyone here gone from the KID to other openings? Am I kidding myself (pun intended) that other openings would be easier? Is the KID unsuitable for the average chesser?
Why don't you just play few other defences without worrying too much about opening theory and having a preferred line?

Niall Doran
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Niall Doran » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:02 pm

Well, I have started to try other openings, but I think it's important to have a preferred line. That way, one gets a feel for the structure, knows the typical plans for the opening. Changing openings, or playing too many different openings doesn't really allow one to get a feel, or a proper understanding of any opening.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Michael Farthing » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:57 am

Niall Doran wrote:Hi all!

I've been playing the KID against 1. d4 (also against 1. Nf3 and 1. c4, weather permitting) since I began playing over ten years ago, but I'm starting to think that maybe it's an unsuitable opening for the average club player, as there are tonnes of variations and it's quite theory-laden.

I have had the same problem! I was told very firmly my leading club members that the KID was unsuitable for a 'positional' player such as myself. This staggered me a bit as I thought I was not positional at all, but I think what they were saying in the politest way was "a player too old for detailed tactical analysis". They're a kindly lot my club!

I still haven't solved the problem but did briefly try the Gruenfeld. It is less tactical, less well known (so you get a bit of surprise advantage) and only involves a minor adjustment to your first few moves!

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:38 am

Niall Doran wrote:Well, I have started to try other openings, but I think it's important to have a preferred line. That way, one gets a feel for the structure, knows the typical plans for the opening. Changing openings, or playing too many different openings doesn't really allow one to get a feel, or a proper understanding of any opening.
Then you could do worse than trying the Dutch. Aggressive enough to give you some play and impossible to avoid (apart starting 1. e4). A bit of a narrow repertoire if you ask me, but if that is what you are looking for...

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:31 pm

Hmmm, the Dutch is fine if Black knows what they are doing! If not, expect a few short sharp defeats :oops:
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Niall Doran
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Niall Doran » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:29 pm

Might try the Dutch. There's a club mate who plays it, so I might pick his brain!

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Michael Farthing » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:24 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:Hmmm, the Dutch is fine if Black knows what they are doing! If not, expect a few short sharp defeats :oops:
Mmm. Tried that in my youth too. In fact, it's my only game on chessbase. [I lost: Not quite a short sharp defeat. More of a slow, certain defeat].

Niall Doran
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Niall Doran » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:47 am

Michael Farthing wrote:
Matt Mackenzie wrote:Hmmm, the Dutch is fine if Black knows what they are doing! If not, expect a few short sharp defeats :oops:
Mmm. Tried that in my youth too. In fact, it's my only game on chessbase. [I lost: Not quite a short sharp defeat. More of a slow, certain defeat].
Care to post it on here to share your embarrassment? :D

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:09 am

Niall Doran wrote: It seems that in certain games, if I misremember the theory and play an inaccurate move, I just end up with a really uncomfortable game, with very little space and no counter-play.

I’m not sure I believe this narrative - although I’m sure it feels that way. Average amateur chesser could be anything from 100-200 ECF but I think you have to get well over that before games really are decided in the opening - let alone because of one move of forgotten theory. Gross blunders aside, I mean.

The Dutch has similarities to the KID in many ways - and not just the Leningrad. IN the Classical too you often aim for pawns on e5 and f5 together with a kingside pawn storm. I’ve played it for many years and scored a lot of points with it. I have suffered some brutal defeats too, though.

As far as I know the following link is my only published game. It appeared in both the BCM and CHESS. And on Chess Cafe too, I think. It’s my only game on chessgames.com. Perhaps fortunately for me they have attributed it to a different J Bryant.


http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1702780

Phil Neatherway
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Phil Neatherway » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:48 am

I think the Queen's Gambit Accepted is very suitable for club players.

That's partly because it's easy to understand, and partly because it's not played very much at club level, so White will possibly be less familiar with it than other defences.

But I think you need another defence up your sleeve in case you need to play for a win. My suggestion would be the Benoni.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:59 pm

Phil Neatherway wrote:I think the Queen's Gambit Accepted is very suitable for club players.

That's partly because it's easy to understand, and partly because it's not played very much at club level, so White will possibly be less familiar with it than other defences.

But I think you need another defence up your sleeve in case you need to play for a win. My suggestion would be the Benoni.
Both the QGA and the Benoni have the major drawback that White can easily avoid those lines. Nobody is forced to play 2. c4 immediately after 1. d4 and just delaying it might ruin your preparation...

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:05 pm

Has no-one suggested the Slav or Semi-Slav? Are those and the Nimzo-Indian suitable for average club players?

Phil Neatherway
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Phil Neatherway » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:12 pm

It's true nobody has to play 2. c4 but doesn't that apply to any defence?

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: Suitable defence for average club player against 1. d4?

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:08 pm

Phil Neatherway wrote:It's true nobody has to play 2. c4 but doesn't that apply to any defence?
Some are more impacted than others. Sidelines without 2. c4 are not much trouble against the Dutch once you have a line against 2. Bg5 and 2. e4. If you plan to play the Benoni and White delays 2. c4 you get a large number of options all very different than what you intended.