Where did I go wrong?

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:39 am

At move 12, Nxd4 is unusual, most players maintain the centre pawns with 12. cxd4 . The reply 12. .. Nc4 isn't recorded as being played before. Given the less usual position, Black is provoked into blundering a piece with 17. .. d5.

John McKenna
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by John McKenna » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:24 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:What was my mistake in:


I think it is questionable whether either player wants their queen on the b-file this early in the game, above.

8... Qb6?! (8... Pd6 & 9... O-O is normal) could have been answered with 9.Qc2!? (9.Qb3?! See game, above.) d6 10.Nd2, with 11.Rb1 to follow and would have been much safer for W than what was played in the game.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

John McKenna
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:39 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:Please tell me my mistakes in:

Roger de Coverly wrote:At move 12, Nxd4 is unusual, most players maintain the centre pawns with 12. cxd4 . The reply 12. .. Nc4 isn't recorded as being played before. Given the less usual position, Black is provoked into blundering a piece with 17. .. d5.


Efim Bogoljubow replied to Endre Steiner's 12.Nxd4!? (Fischer suggested 12.cxd4 c5 13.Nbd2 with slight advantage to W.) with 12... g6, and after 13.Nd2 Re8 14.Nf1 Bf8 15.Ng3 Bg7 16.Bf4 Nc4... won in 29 moves at Budapest, 1921.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:54 am

John McKenna wrote: Efim Bogoljubow replied to Endre Steiner's 12.Nxd4!? (Fischer suggested 12.cxd4 c5 13.Nbd2 with slight advantage to W.) with 12... g6, and after 13.Nd2 Re8 14.Nf1 Bf8 15.Ng3 Bg7 16.Bf4 Nc4... won in 29 moves at Budapest, 1921.
Bogo's .. g6 reply seems very logical. Most players would accept the Fischer verdict and play cxd4 .

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:51 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Bogo's .. g6 reply seems very logical.
That's why I took with the Knight

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:24 pm

My advantage soon disappeared; why?

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by Barry Sandercock » Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:45 pm

Your30..Rf2 is a mistake as it gives White control of the d file with his rook. A better move would have been 30..Qxc3 with threat of mate. and then 31.. Qc2 if White played Rb1. However, White would probably have got a perpetual check with his Queen. All this is easy to see with hindsight, but not at all easy when actually playing.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:56 pm

Barry Sandercock wrote:Your30..Rf2 is a mistake as it gives White control of the d file with his rook. A better move would have been 30..Qxc3 with threat of mate. and then 31.. Qc2 if White played Rb1. However, White would probably have got a perpetual check with his Queen. All this is easy to see with hindsight, but not at all easy when actually playing.
If I was playing White in this game and you went 30....Qxc3, I'd go 31.Qxc5+ and wait for you to resign. :)

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:06 pm

actually, I was asking about the reason I was losing my big advantage, not the reason for my losing the game. I could easily win a pawn, but it necessitated exchanging on d2, going for Bishops of opposite color, which would make the material advantage almost irrelevant

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:22 pm

When do you think it was big? The overall game doesn't look at all clear.

White's opening looks a bit absurd, but its the sort of thing that often works better than you'd think.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by Barry Sandercock » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:36 pm

I don't think Black had an advantage. Certainly not near the end, if at any stage.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:45 pm

Ian Thompson wrote: If I was playing White in this game and you went 30....Qxc3, I'd go 31.Qxc5+ and wait for you to resign. :)
Isn't the King on b2, so taking on c3 is check, but Kxc3 is a good reply?

It's one of those positions that radically changes in the transition to an ending. When the Bishops came off, White was suddenly much better.

If you can win a pawn, but only by going into an opposite Bishops ending, perhaps the Black advantage was not so great.

I suspect the tactics work better the other way round, so that instead of taking on d2, first play Bb5. That way, you regain the piece by taking on d2 with follow up threats to the c3 pawn.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:27 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Ian Thompson wrote: If I was playing White in this game and you went 30....Qxc3, I'd go 31.Qxc5+ and wait for you to resign. :)
Isn't the King on b2, so taking on c3 is check, but Kxc3 is a good reply?
No. White's last move was 30.Ka3 (after 29....Rd2+) and Barry's suggestion was then 30....Qxc3.

I think it's lost for Black after 27....Bb5. White can take the bishop. Black can't then take White's bishop on f2 and defend against the threats to his own king.

John McKenna
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by John McKenna » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:59 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Bogo's .. g6 reply seems very logical.
That's why I took with the Knight
Your reply reveals a lack of appreciation - it is better not to take with the Kt.

After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3
O-O 8.h3 d6 9.c3 Bb7 10.d4 Na5 11.Bc2 exd4, it is better to play Fischer's 12.cxd4,
not 12.Nxd4 because Bogojubow's 12... g6... is a logical and effective way of answering it.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:57 pm

John McKenna wrote:
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Bogo's .. g6 reply seems very logical.
That's why I took with the Knight
Your reply reveals a lack of appreciation - it is better not to take with the Kt.

After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3
O-O 8.h3 d6 9.c3 Bb7 10.d4 Na5 11.Bc2 exd4, it is better to play Fischer's 12.cxd4,
not 12.Nxd4 because Bogojubow's 12... g6... is a logical and effective way of answering it.
Doesn't the move slightly weaken the K-side?

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