Modern Strategy

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
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Joey Stewart
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Modern Strategy

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:18 am

I took up playing the modern/kings indian a few years ago when it was thought to be rubbish and lots of white players had forgotten how to deal with it, but more recently it seems to have had an annoying resurgence in popularity and people are once again taking the time to close it down. Lately I have been finding that the positions I am getting end up being very cramped with white able to eventually break through on the queenside, yet when I see other players using this defence they are doing ok by transposing into a benko gambit later on.

So, do you think this is the only way for black to really deal with negative blocking play by white or are there other attempts that can be made (for example I have sometimes seen c6 tried to break the white centre but it just seems so risky and likely to drop the d pawn) ?
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:37 am

Joey Stewart wrote:I took up playing the modern/kings indian a few years ago when it was thought to be rubbish and lots of white players had forgotten how to deal with it,
I see you use the specific idea with an early Nc6. Thus 1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. e4 Nc6. Tiger's books cover this, but he also suggests that transposing to a regular Kings Indian with .. Nf6 may be better.

If you use a relatively unusual system for several years, opponents will spot it and either prepare for it or avoid it.

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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:09 pm

So how about the ideas later on in the game rather then the shortcomings of my playing a fairly niche first few moves? Do you have that knowledge?
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:28 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:So how about the ideas later on in the game rather then the shortcomings of my playing a fairly niche first few moves? Do you have that knowledge?
Perhaps you could look at this game. It's 4NCL so perhaps only an hour of GM preparation went into it. The Croatian GM uses the plan supposedly known to Russian schoolboys of the 1950s where White will take on f5, Black takes back with the Bishop and White aims to control square e4 for the rest of the game.



The Botvinnik game whose annotation introduced the "Russian schoolboy" concept.



If you check the Alexander game with a modern engine, the engine expresses confidence in its ability to hold the position until quite near the end. So whilst a strong strategy for White, it's not a forced winning one.

In the Bogdan game, taking with the pawn at move 7 is also possible. This leads towards an ending after 8. dxe5 dxe5 9. Qxd8 Nxd8

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:48 pm

Don't think you'll find many humans queueing up to take on black's position in that second game! Maybe the position looks worse than it is because Botvinnik's play is so incredibly logical :)

As for the original question I don't know. They do seem to play c6 quite a bit in sundry kings indian positions - and get away with leaving a weak d6 pawn. Must be very dependent on localised tactics/specific positions how well it works though.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by Nick Burrows » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:30 pm

Another way to fight whites system is The Averbach variation without Nc6. Eg 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.e4 e5

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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by Joey Stewart » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:01 pm

Yeah. I have seen that too but not any especially great results with it.... Roger plays that line actually but not to much success against stronger opposition, looking at his history with it.


I am really more interested in a specific idea of sacrificing the b pawn later in the game to generate activity down the queenside and deter white from trying to clamp down and then pawn rush the castled black king
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by Nick Burrows » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:07 pm

Joey Stewart wrote: Roger plays that line actually but not to much success against stronger opposition, looking at his history with it.
I think you two should have a forum sponsored Modern themed correspondence match to settle it..

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:50 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
I think you two should have a forum sponsored Modern themed correspondence match to settle it..
I would only use the move order 1. .. g6 2. .. Bg7 3. .. d6 if I noticed that it would be met by d4, e4 and c4 in some order and I wanted to incite a Kings Indian, from a player who might otherwise start 1. e4. Otherwise I would play 1 .. Nf6 unless I wanted to avoid the Tromp. There are a number of recent Kings Indian games where I have played the Glek plan of .. e5, .. exd4, .. Re8 and .. Nc6 . I suppose you could get there from the Modern move order, but White would have a lot of other options.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Modern Strategy

Post by Nick Burrows » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:18 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Nick Burrows wrote:
I think you two should have a forum sponsored Modern themed correspondence match to settle it..
I would only use the move order 1. .. g6 2. .. Bg7 3. .. d6 if I noticed that it would be met by d4, e4 and c4 in some order and I wanted to incite a Kings Indian, from a player who might otherwise start 1. e4. Otherwise I would play 1 .. Nf6 unless I wanted to avoid the Tromp. There are a number of recent Kings Indian games where I have played the Glek plan of .. e5, .. exd4, .. Re8 and .. Nc6 . I suppose you could get there from the Modern move order, but White would have a lot of other options.
Deep 8)

If we ever play, i'll probably play 1.f4 !

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