TIME CONTROLS

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
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soheil_hooshdaran
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TIME CONTROLS

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon May 09, 2016 6:09 pm

Hi.
Is 30 minutes with 30 seconds time increment from move one, considered a lassic time control?
@stewart Reuben

Roger de Coverly
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon May 09, 2016 6:15 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:Hi.
Is 30 minutes with 30 seconds time increment from move one, considered a lassic time control?
If you treat 60 minutes as the borderline between rapidplay and the rest, it's right on the boundary. The increment is converted to time by looking at the time to move 60, in this one hour. There isn't really a word to describe rates of play that are slower than rapidplay, but faster than the minimum for FIDE rating.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon May 09, 2016 7:09 pm

I am not sure if 60 minutes is classic according to FIDE rules

Roger de Coverly
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon May 09, 2016 7:24 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:I am not sure if 60 minutes is classic according to FIDE rules
"Classic" is not a well defined term. You wouldn't be able to use a 60 minute time control and expect it to be FIDE rated for standard play, but that's because there's a gap which FIDE doesn't cover with its rating systems.

I don't know whether 30 30 events are particularly common. I don't know of any in the UK. I would expect an arbiter in charge of one of these to clarify for the benefit of players which rule set was in use. Would it be rapidplay, in which case scoring isn't necessary and there's less leeway with illegal moves, or would it be standard play in which case scoring was required throughout?

John McKenna
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by John McKenna » Mon May 09, 2016 7:34 pm

... There isn't really a word to describe rates of play that are slower than rapidplay, but faster than the minimum for FIDE rating.
Limbo?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon May 09, 2016 7:51 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:I am not sure if 60 minutes is classic according to FIDE rules
"Classic" is not a well defined term.
What about "standard"?

Ian Thompson
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon May 09, 2016 8:54 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:I don't know whether 30 30 events are particularly common. I don't know of any in the UK. I would expect an arbiter in charge of one of these to clarify for the benefit of players which rule set was in use. Would it be rapidplay, in which case scoring isn't necessary and there's less leeway with illegal moves, or would it be standard play in which case scoring was required throughout?
The FIDE rules are clear on this point - a rapidplay game is where there is less than 60 minutes for the game (assuming 60 moves are played if there is an increment), so the game's standard play.

The ECF rules are equally clear, and say the same thing.

John McKenna
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by John McKenna » Tue May 10, 2016 12:25 am

'Standard' play is a misnomer - what's standard about it?

'Slow' play, as opposed to 'rapid' play is better but still not good enough.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Francis Fields
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by Francis Fields » Fri May 13, 2016 12:56 pm

'Standard' as in normal - the most popular type of chess.
I much preferred winning to thinking and I didn't like losing at all. ― Aleksandar Hemon

John McKenna
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by John McKenna » Fri May 13, 2016 1:51 pm

But, where and by whose standards are we to determine what is 'normal'?

A general appeal to idea that 'standard' chess is "the most popular type of chess" is not so easy to use to ascertain what it should be.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Francis Fields
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by Francis Fields » Sat May 14, 2016 2:43 pm

Historically, 'standard' chess has been slow.
I much preferred winning to thinking and I didn't like losing at all. ― Aleksandar Hemon

John McKenna
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by John McKenna » Sat May 14, 2016 3:22 pm

Agreed, however, let's try to compare time controls of the mainly mental game of chess with mainly physical sports. (Obviously not comparing like with like, but easier than looking up the time controls of other games, such as Scrabble.)
In soccer all games are basically 90 mins. + some add-ons, as we all should know. That I would say is a standard time control. (There's a reduced form called 5-a-side, which I'll leave aside, but I presume it also has a standard t/c?)
In cricket there seem to be 3 main standards, long - 5-day Tests (maybe a rarer 3-day medium form also exists?) Then comes the short form - 1-day matches. And lastly T-20, which can be fitted into a summer evening.
The thing about all those forms of soccer and cricket is that that they are more or less pretty standard both nationally and internationally.
What is the normal time control for what you call standard play chess? Show me an entry form where it states "standard time control will be used... and you all know what that is, so don't ask unless you're a new tyro, or want to be a real hero!!"
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

MJMcCready
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by MJMcCready » Sun May 15, 2016 6:18 am

I don't think a tournament would use such a term as 'standard time control' because it is ambiguous, as noted above. From what I recall when I used to live and play in England, tournaments, leagues and county chess always differed in terms of the time controls used and often on the flyer of the tournement the time control would be printed, e'g '36 moves in 90 mins'. But this never stopped all the confusion.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:51 am

If a tournament is to be under a 'standard' (90 min) time control, and it is an unrated event, and includes people between 1600 and 2000, can its time control be changed to 60 min and woulldn't it make the organizer a liar?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: TIME CONTROLS

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:57 am

It's something I would advise very strongly against unless there were a clause in the tournament regulations explicitly permitting it, and I'd not want to do it even then.

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