Refuted Openings

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
LawrenceCooper
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Re: Refuted Openings

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:14 am

Topalov claimed (during his visit to Bunratty) that 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 Bc5 is refuted. By that he said there is a forcing line that leaves white +1. I suspect that it's still played with some success below Super GM level though.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Refuted Openings

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:41 pm

So what is this "line"?
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Refuted Openings

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:03 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:So what is this "line"?
He didn't tell us but I suspect it may be in the line starting 4 c3 Nf6 5 d4 Bb6 6 Ne5 Ne5 7 de Ne4 8 Qg4. If that is the case then black has to try something different in the moves before.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Refuted Openings

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:36 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:Topalov claimed (during his visit to Bunratty) that 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 Bc5 is refuted. By that he said there is a forcing line that leaves white +1. I suspect that it's still played with some success below Super GM level though.
It is still played by lots of strong GM's and there are enough variations to be able to side step any single forcing line, so I find this claim a little odd.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Refuted Openings

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:08 am

As I recall Sokolov's book on non 3...a6 Spanish lines is not impressed with it.

Incidentally I seem to recall Topalov played against 3...Nf6 4. O-O Bc5 (a line I used to be fond of) in his match with Kamsky.
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Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Refuted Openings

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:12 pm

JustinHorton wrote:As I recall Sokolov's book on non 3...a6 Spanish lines is not impressed with it.

Incidentally I seem to recall Topalov played against 3...Nf6 4. O-O Bc5 (a line I used to be fond of) in his match with Kamsky.
He did; which adds credence to the idea that 3...Bc5 4 c3 is the perceived problem.

And I believe it - I have spent ages in the past trying to find something that satisfied me against this; and I know one GM friend who wanted to play 3...Bc5 but never did, because even with Fritz he couldn't make it work after 4 c3.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Refuted Openings

Post by Nick Burrows » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:11 pm

I took a look with my engine. After 4 c3 Nf6 5 d4 Bb6 6 Ne5 Ne5 7 de Ne4 8 Qg4 there are indeed long forcing variations leading to an advantage to White.

However after the main line of 4 c3 Nf6 5 d4 exd4 6 e5 Ne4 7 O-O d5 8 cxd4 Bb6 White only has a small plus.

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Re: Refuted Openings

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:53 pm

Interesting; maybe humans are put off that line by Short v Kamsky 1994 (incidentally, the game which made the newspapers when Rustam Kamsky allegedly threatened Short).

7 0-0 is generally thought to be critical, but 7 cxd4 is possible and 7 Qe2 certainly deserves attention as well.

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