is the Vienna game sound?

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
LawrenceCooper
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:12 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Simon Brown wrote: so now and then you may get 1 e4 e5 2 Nc3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 Qg4 which is great fun.
I have a handful of games in my archive where I reached it from a Bishop's opening move order. Against the 4. .. g6 defence, an engine is so offended by the position of the Queen on g4 that it would take the move back with Qd1.

Engines seem to believe that after 4. .. Qf6 and the provocative line 5. Nd5 Qxf2 6. Kd1, that the only sensible idea is 6. .. Kf8 and that 7. Nh3 should be met by 7. .. h5..
Last edited by Carl Hibbard on Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Slight post edit and game autoplay now a bit faster.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:01 pm

Matthew Webb "7. ... h5 is a novelty I believe. Which has been quoted on the EC Forum previously."

Roger de Coverly
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:42 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:Matthew Webb "7. ... h5 is a novelty I believe.
It's a move recommended by engines, but it has been played before, but probably not in any British event.

The first recorded example is from the Bavarian Championship of 1986.

Paul Dargan
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Paul Dargan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:12 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:


It's an alternative to watching the paint dry in the London or the Colle, but less practical as a line for all seasons.
I am reliably infirmed that this appeared on board1 in round 5 of the Scarbotrough Open last weekend!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:15 pm

Paul Dargan wrote: I am reliably infirmed that this appeared on board1 in round 5 of the Scarbotrough Open last weekend!
see above

MartinCarpenter
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:51 pm

A bit incidental but great to see Matty back at Scarborough :)

Paul Dargan
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Paul Dargan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:09 pm

I have no idea how I missed Loz's post! All I can do is blame wifi on the train ...

E Michael White
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by E Michael White » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:58 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:Matthew Webb "7. ... h5 is a novelty I believe.
It's a move recommended by engines, but it has been played before, but probably not in any British event.

The first recorded example is from the Bavarian Championship of 1986.
I think this line after Nd5 is called the Meitner-Mieses Gambit , Stanley Variation. I have 13 games played by others with the position after 7. ... h5.

The earliest game I have is Brodie v Kaminski USA during 1969.

The highest rated player of the Black side was Hoffstetter at 2315.

The game which follows Scarborough for the most moves is Grosshans v Wundt during 1986. In that game Wundt played 10. ... Bd8 and 1-0 . So Mathew Webb's 10. ... Nf6 is the novelty, at least according to my database.
Last edited by E Michael White on Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:13 am

E Michael White wrote: I think this line after Nd5 is called the Meitner-Mieses Gambit , Stanley Variation.
As in this example from over 100 years ago

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1036624

(Mieses-Chigorin 1906)

NickFaulks
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:15 am

E Michael White wrote: So Mathew Webb's 10. ... Nf6 is the novelty at least according to my database.
According to Chessbase's free online database, 10...Nf6 was played in a Dublin correspondence game in 1892. I wonder whether Matthew, who is generally well prepared, was aware that he was honouring the move's quasquicentenary. Will it reappear in 2142?

Tim Harding
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Tim Harding » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:03 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
E Michael White wrote: So Mathew Webb's 10. ... Nf6 is the novelty at least according to my database.
According to Chessbase's free online database, 10...Nf6 was played in a Dublin correspondence game in 1892. I wonder whether Matthew, who is generally well prepared, was aware that he was honouring the move's quasquicentenary. Will it reappear in 2142?
Correct, Nick. 10...Nf6 was played by an Irishman, Professor Philip G.Sandford, against James Birks of England in the 3rd postal tournament run by the Dublin Evening Mail, 1892-1894. The game, which was drawn in 54 moves, was published in the Dublin Evening Mail on 27 June 1895.

I expect ChessBase got the game from one of my old CC databases.
The latest version, UltraCorr-X, is available on my website http://www.chessmail.com but this time (having completed my historic researches into CC) I have included all the notes I collected over many years to pre-1914 CC games.
Tim Harding
Historian and Kibitzer

Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

David Robertson
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by David Robertson » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:33 pm

Oh, Vienna
This means nothing to me

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:20 am

Something is not quite right with game playback but I have had to contact Paolo on this one.
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Carl Hibbard

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:45 am

Carl Hibbard wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:20 am
Something is not quite right with game playback but I have had to contact Paolo on this one.
Yet again many thanks to Paolo Casaschi who doesn't get enough praise for his excellent software.
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: is the Vienna game sound?

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:50 am

I have upgraded to his latest software and enabled autoplay let me know if users prefer that on or off please.
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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