Piece values

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Wed May 26, 2021 4:50 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 8:59 pm
John Upham wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 11:56 am
Does EK discuss the changing value of a pawn as it progresses from the 2nd to the 7th rank?
He has a paragraph saying in certain positions a pawn on the seventh rank is worth at least 3 pawns, but trying to work out when its worth 2 pawns etc is not worthwhile.
A fast/dangerous/well supported passed pawn is likely more valuable than an extra pawn for the other side
who is EK?

User avatar
John Clarke
Posts: 711
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by John Clarke » Fri May 28, 2021 11:37 pm

Erik Kislik. Read the earlier posts.
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by MJMcCready » Sat May 29, 2021 12:08 pm

It does beg the question that if the numerical valuation of pieces is so easily drawn into question, why we persist with it. I did overhear Howell mention in the commentary the other day that Alphazero does not adhere to that system.

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 4818
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: Piece values

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat May 29, 2021 5:58 pm

We persist with it because it's a decent first-level approximation that can help us get to the level where we start realizing its shortcomings.

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by MJMcCready » Sat May 29, 2021 11:05 pm

Yes you have a point there, a sort of ''rough guide'' if you like.

Nick Ivell
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun May 30, 2021 2:05 pm

No one pretends it's anything other than a rough guide.

If it stops beginners going a4 e5; Ra3, it serves its purpose.

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by MJMcCready » Mon May 31, 2021 4:32 pm

Well yes and no, computers use it and have a numerical value system in place, well except Alphazero according to James Howell.

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Piece values

Post by Wadih Khoury » Mon May 31, 2021 6:10 pm

MJMcCready wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 4:32 pm
Well yes and no, computers use it and have a numerical value system in place, well except Alphazero according to James Howell.
Computers take also into account their activity, so they do nuance it quite a bit.