2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

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Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:27 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:25 pm
Brian >those players wouldn't have been allowed to leave home in the first place. You are making false comparisons.<

How come then I met players at such events as the Lloyds Bank Masters where they assured me it was impossible for them to play against Israeli opponents?
How come the Yemen defaulted 4-0 against Israel in 2008?
I think Brian's point is that the Arab players wouldn't have been allowed to travel to Israel, even if the Israelis were happy for Arab players to be there. If they can't leave in the first place, the issue of what happens to them when they return home doesn't exist.

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David Shepherd
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by David Shepherd » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:38 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:26 pm
Arab countries think the Israelis have done wrong - by existing.
I think that is generally where people go wrong, countries don't think they just exist, so you should never attribute a thought to a country (or race), it is individuals that think.

David Robertson
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by David Robertson » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:27 pm

David Shepherd wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:38 pm
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:26 pm
Arab countries think the Israelis have done wrong - by existing.
I think that is generally where people go wrong, countries don't think they just exist, so you should never attribute a thought to a country (or race), it is individuals that think
A sovereign power - an overwhelming authority; a monopoliser of violence; in short, a hegemon - does not grant agency (ie freedom of thought or action) to individuals. It substitutes itself for individuals in the name of the nation. Hence, when a non-democratic nation 'thinks' - that is, declares a view - it commits all citizens; unlike a democracy which may declare a view subject to revision by citizens.

To the matters here: Israel's existence - that is, its existential legitimacy - is contested by some states. Those states instruct their citizens to act, by policy and threat, as if Israel does not (should not!) exist. Regardless of the individual 'thoughts' of those citizens, and their willingness to play Israelis, their states (the hegemon) ban that prospect.

What does FIDE do? It proclaims Gens Una Sumus, then promptly caves in to whatever the anti-Israel tyrannies say. What does Stewart Reuben do? Astonishingly, truly astonishingly, he does the same!

RULE: no excuses; no exceptions - nations and their citizens should not be excluded by other nations and their citizens. FIDE should never have agreed the recent events with Saudi Arabia under the terms that prevailed; our players and officials are diminished by association; and the ECF announcement on the matter should be the start, not the end, of the discussion
Last edited by David Robertson on Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chris Rice
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:43 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:45 am
The way it is written it seems as if what had happened was eventually checked with the computer showing the moves on a sensory board.
Why not do that when the first claim was made?
Anyway it gave the Appeal Committee something to do.
Its an excellent initiative by FIDE to publish the Appeal Committees rationale for making the decisions they did at Riyadh. I was surprised that in the game Grischuk-Mamedyarov when the original arbiter missed a fourfold repetition that the Appeals Committee only upheld it by 2-1 with Malcolm Pein being the dissenting voice.

As we know Inarkiev's claim was turned down but I found the explanation for doing so rather difficult to follow and the fact that they gave Inarkiev his money back for lodging the Appeal was a surprise.


Stewart Reuben
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:27 am

No. What I have been saying is that FIDE accept the situation, while still paying lip-service to its motto.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:42 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:08 am
Here's what the European Chess Union had to say
http://www.europechess.org/statement-fi ... hips-2017/
Another addition to the list of people and organisations demanding that FIDE does what it is clearly going to do anyway. Of course, the more people saying it, the better.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:35 am

" the fact that they gave Inarkiev his money back for lodging the Appeal was a surprise."

Yes, I thought that. However, it may be more that if they said the appeal was frivolous, then they would be saying the arbiter was an idiot. If they declare the appeal not frivolous, then it sort of says the arbiter made an uncharacteristic unfortunate error in the heat of the moment (which may be true).

Stewart Reuben
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:27 pm

t is commonplace to return the Appeal fee, if the Appeal has merit. If the committee vote is divided, clearly it does have merit. I think it is improper if the way the committee voted becomes common knowledge.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:01 pm

"If the committee vote is divided, clearly it does have merit. I think it is improper if the way the committee voted becomes common knowledge."

I agree - surely the most you say is that it was "unanimous" or by "majority"?

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:19 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:01 pm
I agree - surely the most you say is that it was "unanimous" or by "majority"?
In principle I agree, but when it's a three person committee you can work it out.

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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Angus French » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:04 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:27 pm
t is commonplace to return the Appeal fee, if the Appeal has merit. If the committee vote is divided, clearly it does have merit. I think it is improper if the way the committee voted becomes common knowledge.
It doesn't seem the committee was divided on the Inarkiev appeal (only on the Grischuk appeal).

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:50 pm

The FIDE site has something of a sideswipe at Agon in a report by J Vega (Continental President for the Americas)
http://www.fide.com/component/content/a ... -2017.html
A highly positive measure that must be followed by FIDE in all its world championships was the free opening of the transmission of the live games to all the websites that wished to use it. This promotes chess and does not limit it as when transmission is conditioned by an economic interest.
So where was he when the FIDE General Assembly granted commercial rights to Agon without insisting on unrestricted transmission of moves?

(edit) The Continental President for the Americas sees fit to comment on the Rapid/Blitz championships, the FIDE President on the other hand ignores them. He didn't seem to be invited and presumably had little or nothing to do with the decision as to where to hold them.
http://kirsan.today/en
He's been in London, not however to meet with anyone from the ECF, but with the President of the Mongolian Chess Federation (/edit)

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:39 pm

Retweeted Mohamed Al-Medaihki (@almodiahki):

Open letter was sent to @FIDE_chess regarding the opening speech during the world R&B championship last month.The speech included racist statements against my wife @GMzhuchen & an assault on Qatar, which is considered to be a breach of the sports ethical principles & Fide status.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2017 King Salman World Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 26-30 December 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:39 pm
The speech included racist statements against my wife @GMzhuchen & an assault on Qatar, which is considered to be a breach of the sports ethical principles & Fide status.
Is there any record of these offensive statements?

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