Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

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Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:05 am

Arkady Dvorkovich
5
11%
Georgios Makropoulos
9
20%
Nigel Short
22
48%
None of the Above
10
22%
 
Total votes: 46

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JustinHorton
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:46 pm

I missed this from Malcolm a couple of days ago. (I haven't yet been able to listen to that programme, which Ian Thompson flagged up on the media thread a couple of days ago.)

Just as an aside, does anybody else find Garry Kasparov's apparent lack of interest in the contest surprising? I wonder if any journalists will ask him about it in the course of his Chess960 match.
Last edited by JustinHorton on Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Angus French » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:13 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:46 pm
Just as an aside, does anybody else find Garry Kasparov's apparent lack of interest in the contest surprising? I wonder if anybody journalists will ask him about it in the course of his Chess960 match.
Good question. In particular, I wonder what Kasparov makes of his mate, Nigel, cosying up to Dvorkovich? (And didn't Kasparov help finance Nigel's campaign tour of African countries?)

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by David Robertson » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:31 pm

It's all kicking off!

Makropoulos has begun heavy shelling of Dvorkovich's position. He's seeking to have his main opponent banned via a joint Makro-Pein referral to the FIDE & IOC Ethics Committee for egregious malfeasance of varying kinds.

Dvorkovich meanwhile has laid down his own carpet-bombing, accusing Makropoulos of three decades' worth of malfeasance and "untraceable spending", declaring that he has no plans to be banned for eight years.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:44 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:46 pm
Just as an aside, does anybody else find Garry Kasparov's apparent lack of interest in the contest surprising? I wonder if any journalists will ask him about it in the course of his Chess960 match.
Presumably an endorsement from Kasparov would be enough to sink a candidate's chances of winning
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:45 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:31 pm
It's all kicking off!

Makropoulos has begun heavy shelling of Dvorkovich's position. He's seeking to have his main opponent banned via a joint Makro-Pein referral to the FIDE & IOC Ethics Committee for egregious malfeasance of varying kinds.

Dvorkovich meanwhile has laid down his own carpet-bombing, accusing Makropoulos of three decades' worth of malfeasance and "untraceable spending", declaring that he has no plans to be banned for eight years.
220,000 euros to Serbia :roll:
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:03 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:44 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:46 pm
Just as an aside, does anybody else find Garry Kasparov's apparent lack of interest in the contest surprising? I wonder if any journalists will ask him about it in the course of his Chess960 match.
Presumably an endorsement from Kasparov would be enough to sink a candidate's chances of winning
This might be true, but I can't imagine Kasparov thinking that.
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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:25 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:31 pm

Makropoulos has begun heavy shelling of Dvorkovich's position.
According to the written statement of Serbia’s former delegate, the Russian Embassy in Belgrade organized a meeting on 1 August and a few days later a specially structured “sponsorship” package of 220,000 euros was offered to the Serbian Chess Federation in order to change their delegate.

Around the same time, a leaked email of the Israeli Foreign Ministry to the local National Chess Federation says bluntly that the President of Russia asked the Prime Minister of Israel for support to Mr. Dvorkovich and “in return Russia would support Israel’s candidacy to host the next championship”(!).
I don't know how far back it's reasonable to look, but weren't similar incidents alleged to be common practice by the winning side in the campaigns of 2006, 2010 and 2014?

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:36 pm

"I don't know how far back it's reasonable to look, but weren't similar incidents alleged to be common practice by the winning side in the campaigns of 2006, 2010 and 2014?"

And even the losing side. I was told that one small federation accepted a bribe from one candidate, and in the same election, another small federation said "We'll think about it", then when the other candidate offered a bribe, they started a bidding war, and did rather well out of it.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:42 pm

Peter Doggers provides a summary of where we are. However, couldn't find anything new in it that this thread has not already covered.

There are a couple of further updates. Nigel tweets:

"The last shot of an increasingly desperate man. @makro_chess and his team attempt to rig the FIDE election by disqualifying their main competitor @advorkovich . The sheer effrontery of this action beggars belief."

A longer comment from Emil Sutovsky, President of the ACP, on FB who said:

"No more smiles. It becomes brutal and in my opinion, Akela has missed. Such an experienced if not to say old warrior as Makro should not have committed such a grave mistake. Or was it his only chance? After all the pompous releases officially announcing an estimation of 114 supporting federations, he suddenly submits a complaint to FIDE Ethics, requesting to ban Dvorkovich for eight (EIGHT!) years, and also to ban several federations (including Israel) who supported the Russian candidate. All that on grounds of alleged corruption and unlawful pressure on federations. Of course, if Mr. Makropulos had these 114 votes, he would not do anything of the kind. Like he was not in hurry to attack Kasparov in 2014. Then Makro had all the proofs, but first he opted for the tour de force - winning the elections for Kirsan. And only then turned to the Ethics. Not this time. After Nigel Short has joined forces with Dvorkovich, the situation that was already quite bleak for the incumbent started looking almost hopeless and demanded some urgent measures. And all the accusations that actually were aired one-two months ago suddenly prompted the action in September. I don't know how exactly testimonium paupertatis should look like - but Makro's complaint does look like the one. It would be in a way ironical if the present team stays in power because the opponents are disqualified on grounds of corruption. But for chess it would be rather tragic. And I really hope it won't happen."

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:37 am

Further electoral messages from the candidates:

Nigel Short Tweet 1:

"In the FIDE Ethics Commission complaint of @makro_chess v @advorkovich the Deputy President seeks, inter alia, the 1 year exclusion of the #Israel #chess fed. Convenient for the lucrative 2019 World Rapid and Blitz Ch. in Riyadh, for which jobs are tacitly being offered."

Makro tweets:

"A reminder on how the same team staged the Glen Stark criminal scam, just a few months ago. FIDE of course stopped them. What was their excuse again? "Makro is doing it because he is losing the #FIDEelections2018 (sic)". Find the similarities with today. http://www.chessdom.com/glen-stark-gary ... kirsangate …"

Nigel Tweet 2:

"Would @makro_chess be so kind as to inform us whether he is using FIDE lawyers, and public funds, in his desperate attempts to disqualify @advorkovich ? #cleanhands4fide"

Dvorkovich makes a statement entitled I will take all possible legal measures to protect my
reputation and good name
regarding the Serbian issue where he trashes Makro's allegations.

Nigel backs Dvokovich's statement Tweet 3:

"End of the road for the Makro mob. And not before time."

As we approach the finish line FIDE have published the recommended wording for the assignment of proxies here. Has to be done by September 19th. The wording for how you make the cash payments or receive the benefits in kind in return for the proxy vote seems to have been omitted, perhaps an oversight or maybe this is done verbally?

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:15 am

David Robertson wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:31 pm
It's all kicking off!
It troubles me to be in agreement with Short and Sutovsky, but Makro is showing all the signs of a cornered man. It still looks to me as though he has the votes, but he would have better information!

While financial inducements no doubt have been and are being offered, particularly in one continent that has exposed itself to that sort of thing, I question this forum's easy assumption that nothing else matters. Next week, for instance, the ECF Board has a difficult decision to make between Makro and Dvorkovich, and I would be sorry to think that any of them had been bribed. I hope that they will look at the bonus GM and IM titles recently awarded to Arab nations, for blatant political purposes, and conclude that, irrespective of anything else, support for an administration which acts in this way is out of the question. Of course, as a custodian of the titles system I would say that.

So how does Makro lose? I can see two ways. The first is that his iron grip on the Americas fails, in which case he is sunk. The second is that a number of basically decent federations ( I include the ECF for this purpose ) take an objective look, overcome their distaste for anything involving Russians and jump the other way. There would need to be quite a few of these, but it could happen.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:25 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:15 am
While financial inducements no doubt have been and are being offered, particularly in one continent that has exposed itself to that sort of thing
Only one?
NickFaulks wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:15 am
So how does Makro lose? I can see two ways. The first is that his iron grip on the Americas fails, in which case he is sunk.
So, unless Makro is winning the "financial inducements" war with Dvorkovitch he is lost. And unless South American chess federation are totally different from their governments, I should probably add.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:24 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:25 pm
Only one?
Yes, I think there is only one continent where this is the dominant theme. Corners of others.
So, unless Makro is winning the "financial inducements" war with Dvorkovitch he is lost.
No, I did not say that. Indeed, if this factor were decisive there would be no need even to hold the election, since Dvorkovich may be presumed to have access to unlimited money whereas Makro has only what he can liberate from FIDE funds.

Nearly all federations in the Americas follow the lead of Jorge Vega, their Continental President. An ex-revolutionary ( he fought and played chess with Che Guevara ) he has not lost his principles and is not motivated by personal financial gain - unlike Jose Manuel Barroso, I am confident that he will never work for Goldman Sachs. He wants what he considers to be best for chess, and in particular what is best for chess in the Americas. During the Kirsan v Kasparov era he believed this was Kirsan and I thought ( and still think ) that he was right. His reasons for supporting Makro now have not been explained to me.

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:15 pm

Goran Urosevic the Serbian delegate, at the centre of the Ethics Commission referral by Makro breaks his silence

"Mr Dvorkovich is breaking the confidentiality of the Ethics Commission in an attempt to threaten and intimidate me. His threats will fail miserably, exactly as his team members' did when they were accusing me that "Glen Stark" exists. My full reply will reach @advorkovich soon."

Then Malcolm commented:

"I wonder what @bbalgabaev Kirsan's right hand man and Willi Iclicki were doing in Belgrade? Maybe they were visiting its famous cathedral"

Malcolm followed this up by commenting on one of Justin's blogs regarding Kasparov's silence:

"He is dumbfounded I'm told"

Aren't we all?

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Re: Which Candidate Should the ECF Support in the FIDE Presidential Election? (Take 2)

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:31 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:15 pm
Aren't we all?
No we're not. We're intrigued that he hasn't followed the normal script of waiting for the second ballot before declaring for Dvorkovich. Can he think there may not be one?

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