European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:58 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:48 am
Were there any?
http://pairings.fide.com/images/stories ... inutes.pdf

"pairing allocated bye" is the topic.

More applicable to individual tournaments, but the practice of allocating the round 1 pairing bye to the lowest ranked player can lead to the same individual being selected in repeated tournaments. That's quite obvious if the same player is always rated the lowest, but also applies to players without ratings whose names are at the end of the alphabet.

Mick Norris
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:20 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:22 am
Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:37 am
Tough start for Richard Bates and his teammates
Whatever the discussions in Batumi about how to handle odd numbers in Swiss systems, they are still giving the bye to the lowest ranked team, in this case one of the Irish teams. Of the British teams, only Wood Green in the top half, just.
I'd have thought the major issue is that they have incorrectly put 3Cs as 58th seeds, rather than 45th (due to confusing Rhys Cumming playing for 3Cs with unrated Ron Cummins playing for an Irish team I think)
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:26 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:37 am
Tough start for Richard Bates and his teammates
We are slightly envious of their pairing.

Chris Rice
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:06 am

Any Blackthorne Russia player that manages to get a half point or more out of this fixture deserves free drinks all night from his team mates.

Blackthorne Russia - Mednyi Vsadnik St.Petersburg
IM Bates, R. A. 2374 - GM Vitiugov, N. 2709
IM Ledger, A. J. 2353 - GM Fedoseev, V. 2713
FM Webb, L. E. 2342 - GM Matlakov, M. 2683
FM Duncan, C. R. 2236 - GM Rodshtein, M. 2674
FM Ledger, D. J. 2168 - GM Alekseenko 2639
Ledger, S. C. 2020 - GM Goganov, A. 2592

NickFaulks
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:07 am

Win with White, draw with Black.

NickFaulks
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:13 am

That's a good find. Hard copies of many reports were rationed, so delegates are still waiting to see the reports which they will be minuted as having approved.

Richard Bates
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:18 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:20 am
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:22 am
Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:37 am
Tough start for Richard Bates and his teammates
Whatever the discussions in Batumi about how to handle odd numbers in Swiss systems, they are still giving the bye to the lowest ranked team, in this case one of the Irish teams. Of the British teams, only Wood Green in the top half, just.
I'd have thought the major issue is that they have incorrectly put 3Cs as 58th seeds, rather than 45th (due to confusing Rhys Cumming playing for 3Cs with unrated Ron Cummins playing for an Irish team I think)
Seems like an unfortunate cockup caused by a series of unlikely coincidences (and presumably some carelessness). Rhys was a very late registration to 3Cs caused by their top board being forced to pull out for medical reasons yesterday (they didn't have a reserve player). Also Alan Walton provided FIN details etc for Rhys, one can only assume that the organisers have thought that 3Cs have borrowed Ron Cummins from another team. Who by coincidence is playing for the Irish team who got the bye. Presumably the error would otherwise have been picked up when publishing the pairings...

(It also probably wasn't realised by 3Cs that Ron Cummins was actually a player at the event, which had it been known would have been obviously highlighted!)
Last edited by Richard Bates on Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Richard Bates
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:23 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:13 am
That's a good find. Hard copies of many reports were rationed, so delegates are still waiting to see the reports which they will be minuted as having approved.
When playing a few years ago at the EuroClub the way the bye was treated was a disaster, because they were still using fixed seeding pairings. The EuroClub only awards half pt for a bye, and the mixture of the inevitable high mis-matches in first 2-3 rounds, along with lowest floats, meant that you got a mini tournament among the lowest rated teams (because first round had lowest team get a by, second round 2nd lowest - who then played each other in round 3 etc. etc). With the lack of other 3-3 draws in the competition this then put teams miles out of position in future rounds. Less of an issue under current pairing system of course, because the way it works there are more likely to be drawn matches in round 2, and byes don't automatically go to the lowest rated teams. One down side of a very strong oppoennt first up is the increased possibility of getting the bye in round 2.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:29 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:23 am
The EuroClub only awards half pt for a bye
Same at the Olympiad, FWIW.

Mick Norris
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:55 pm

chess24live from 1:15 pm
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Paul Cooksey
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:32 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:06 am
IM Bates, R. A. 2374 - GM Vitiugov, N. 2709
Good to see Vitiugov is intimated by Richard's preparation in the main lines.

Mick Norris
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:34 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:32 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:06 am
IM Bates, R. A. 2374 - GM Vitiugov, N. 2709
Good to see Vitiugov is intimated by Richard's preparation in the main lines.
And Svidler is avoiding Richard completely :wink:
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger de Coverly
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:52 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:32 pm
Good to see Vitiugov is intimated by Richard's preparation in the main lines.


Didn't we discuss the idea of .. Be6 in the Queens Gambit Declined some while ago? But then top GMs find all their best ideas from games played in minor tournaments.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=8205

Admittedly Black has thrown in .. a6 as well.

NickFaulks
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:47 pm

Loz seems to have had a narrow escape.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: European Club Cup 11-19 October 2018

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:57 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:47 pm
Loz seems to have had a narrow escape.
Yes, my thinking from around move 10 was all over the place. I can play a nice position or I can win material but allow my opponent counterplay. Then I can miscalculate every subsequent line and allow him to win his piece and maintain his initiative. Thankfully he saw only the perpetual. Further evidence to those who ask why I don't play more :wink:

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