World Teams 2019

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:44 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:41 pm
(Did Speelman set any sort of record for age when representing England, at least in the modern era?)
Sir George Thomas would have been 58 in 1939.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Georg ... th_Baronet

Apart from Adams and Short in recent years, other names that spring to mind are Alexander and Golombek in the 1950s and Penrose, Littlewood and Wade in the 1970s. None of the latter three were that old though.

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John Saunders
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by John Saunders » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:45 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:41 pm

(Did Speelman set any sort of record for age when representing England, at least in the modern era?)
Interesting question! The answer appears to be 'yes'. In 1935 at the Warsaw Olympiad, England board four HE Atkins celebrated his 68th birthday four days into the tournament. But, from a quick check at Olimpbase, I don't think any player aged over 60 has represented England in Olympiads since that time. I stress "in Olympiads" - however, I've not checked European Team Championships or World Team events. These may not be truly 'like for like' comparisons as European teams used to have significantly more boards.
Last edited by John Saunders on Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:49 pm

Maybe also see if Speelman set any record for the time span between his previous and most recent appearances for England. There is the caveat that he was (presumably?) not actually intending to play in the event. You could ask who the oldest participant has been who was in the team by right (i.e. by rating). Maybe even widen to all countries and all events - I am sure someone has looked before at the age records (youngest and oldest) at the Olympiads at least, but cannot find that offhand, other than the trivia mentioned here.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:53 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:49 pm
You could ask who the oldest participant has been who was in the team by right (i.e. by rating). Maybe even widen to all countries and all events
The names Korchnoi and Portisch spring to mind.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:59 pm

John Saunders wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:45 pm
But, from a quick check at Olimpbase, I don't think any player aged over 60 has represented England in Olympiads since that time.
Had he been selected in 1958, Dr Fazekas would have been 60. Otherwise Kottnauer played in 1968 at the age of 58.

NickFaulks
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:53 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:06 pm
Yes, it was funded; see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10079
I hope the sponsors are pleased with the result ( they should be! ) and can be persuaded to do it again.

J T Melsom
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by J T Melsom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:54 pm

The related thread suggested a number of reasons why the sponsor might not be appropriate, some of which to my mind had merit. I would hope that with a little more time to raise funds some further thought might be given to those issues. And it cannot be ruled out that a successful team might be more attractive to other sponsors.

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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:56 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:54 pm
And it cannot be ruled out that a successful team might be more attractive to other sponsors
I hope so
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Richard Bates
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Richard Bates » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:24 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:48 pm
Somebody's always out of form though. (In this context I often think of the 2005 Ashes series which England won even though a number of their players barely turned up.)
Off topic, but don’t think 2005 is the one I would choose! 2013 maybe! In fact the only batsman who didn’t turn up in 2005 was the only one in 2013 who did!

In some ways I think what may have helped (and it was the same situation in the Olympiad to some extent) was only having (effectively) 4 players in the team. Players don’t get time to dwell on apparent bad form, colour sequences are fairly regular so generally no single players find themselves harshly treated, everyone just has to get on with it. Very tough on Mickey, given the strength of field he has to face, with little relief, but ultimately good for the team if he can play every game, even if off colour. As anyone who has played top board at any level can attest, you can always console yourself with the knowledge that by playing you give every other player an easier game.

Downside of course is what happens if you get illness, but ultimately that’s just bad luck.

Alternatively, maybe there’s just an improved team spirit!

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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:14 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:56 pm
J T Melsom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:54 pm
And it cannot be ruled out that a successful team might be more attractive to other sponsors
I hope so
It must be an encouraging sign that this forum is already discussing how to get rid of sponsors rather than how to find them. I hope the ECF Board takes due note.

Nick Grey
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Nick Grey » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:33 pm

Excellent result/performance. Encourage sponsors for best package for England's elite player's & management.

Richard Bates
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 am

Interesting snippet that England appear to have been employing Boris Avrukh as team coach.

Chris Rice
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:09 am

Richard Bates wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:47 am
Interesting snippet that England appear to have been employing Boris Avrukh as team coach.
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:49 pm
Maybe also see if Speelman set any record for the time span between his previous and most recent appearances for England. There is the caveat that he was (presumably?) not actually intending to play in the event.
I was informed by one of the members of the England Senior teams that Speelman had no intention of playing and that he was there purely as an analyst. I don't know if that meant helping with opening prep, I assumed it did, so never enquired further. I hadn't heard anything regarding Avrukh, who we know from his Quality Chess books is a leading opening expert, but I'll try and find out more. Given that this was such a great result it would be interesting to know what these two did to assist as I presume it would be a good idea to replicate this for future team events.

David Sedgwick
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:41 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:49 pm
Maybe also see if Speelman set any record for the time span between his previous and most recent appearances for England.
If you only count major team competitions, the answer to your question is no.

Speelman's previous appearance was at the Turin Olympiad in May 2006, so an interval of 12 years and 10 months.

England withdrew from the Buenos Aires Olympiad on the outbreak of war in September 1939 and appeared next at the Helsinki Olympiad in August 1952 - an interval of 12 years and 11 months. Golombek and Milner-Barry appeared on both occasions.

However, there were a number of representative matches in the mid and late 1940s in which Golombek and others from those teams played, the most famous being the radio match against the USSR in 1946 and the face to face match against the same opposition in 1947.

David Sedgwick
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Re: World Teams 2019

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:57 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:07 pm
For me, the single most encouraging element of a sensational performance is that it was achieved with the top board below his best.
Exactly so.

Our greatest ever event probably still remains the European Team Championships 1997 in Pula, when the Open Team won Gold and the Womens' Team Bronze (their first medal). On that occasion every single member of both our teams achieved a plus score.

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