44th Chess Olympiad, Moscow

[JustinHorton]

He has been quick to accept publicly that there must be consequences for Russia

Possibly slow to implement them, though, might be an argument.

[Joseph Conlon]

Is your issue with the Russian state or with the Russian people?

The sanctions and sporting measures clearly effect both. Probably a universal ban on competitions is the cleanest way forward, and probably what’s actually going to happen anyway.

Let's bring this closer to home. I run junior chess tournaments. A number of the entrants are Russian - or at the very least, the parents are Russian, so if I take the entry fee I am taking payment from a Russian citizen. On occasion I have heard two children analysing after the game in Russian. In some cases the FIDE nationality of the child is RUS.

Do you think I should ban these kids? Do you think other junior chess organisers should ban these children from events? Do you think the UK Chess Challenge and other such large events should ban such children from competing? If a child resident in the UK has a FIDE nationality of RUS, should they be banned from chess events in the UK?

(To be clear, not in a million years am I going to implement any such ban. But this is what a universal ban means - it's not something that just applies to GMs resident in Moscow, it will also apply to children living in the UK. I understand that emotions are running high, but I think distinguishing between the Russian state and Russian individuals is very important.)

[Jonathan Bryant]

Nigel Short was interviewed yesterday on the recent FIDE Council decisions. Even though he is in effect the head of FIDE at the moment he is clear that the decisions are still being made collectively and that this is a very difficult diplomatic process. From the 8 minute interview it seems from his repeated statements such as "it seems clear to me what needs to be done" that he personally doesn't think FIDE have gone far enough and that they need to get to a position where all Russian and Belarussian players as teams or individuals will be banned from all chess events for the time being.

There were some revealing insights into the size of the FIDE budget ballooning after Dvorkovich took over and how FIDE won't be as affected as you might have thought over getting rid of all the Russian sponsors. The Olympiad and the World Team Championships being moved to later in the year are also referenced.

Thanks for the link Chris.

You may well be right about Short’s personal views. But unfortunately getting into pickles like this is a foreseeable risk when you align your organisation with extremely dubious regimes and employ in key positions staff who are associated with those regimes

[JustinHorton]

I mean if you actually describe a guy as "an agent of the Russian government" and then ally with him to your mutual benefit, and then his relationship to the Russian government becomes an issue, at what point do your own actions and your own responsibility become an issue?

[Jonathan Bryant]

He has been quick to accept publicly that there must be consequences for Russia

Possibly slow to implement them, though, might be an argument.

The following - from quoting Roger below - was originally posted in FIDE Sanctions thread in general chess but I've moved it here because it seems more relevant to the current discussion.

I would certainly agree that FIDE has taken a number of steps which are to its credit, but there's a big HOWEVER ...

... they've got their bases covered by using the FIDE Ethics Commission ....

FIDE increasingly looking like an organisation with the primary goal of, as you put it, covering their bases, rather than doing the right thing. And in the process managing to be a step behind even FIFA/UEFA and the IOC - hardly sporting bodies with a pristine reputation for moral rectitude - in terms of what they are prepared to do.

Compare the FIFA/UEFA statement on the crisis
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... r%20notice.
with FIDE's
https://www.fide.com/news/1608

in which FIDE acknowledges that Russia "cannot be allowed to participate" *, and yet cannot bring itself to use FIFA/UEFA's clear and direct wording " all Russian teams, ... shall be suspended from participation ... until further notice.".

And this morning brings reports that IOC have "banned" Russian and Belarusian athletes from the paraolympicshttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/03/r ... rn-ukraine


FIDE, of course, have suspended the World Team Championship for no readily apparent reason. Certainly for no reason that is explained in their announcement that the event is postponed.
It seems obvious that the only thing to be gained by not holding the World Teams when originally scheduled - as they have done with the Grand Prix, for example - is to avoid having to outright suspend Russia or face nobody else turning up.

FIDE's frankly rather limp reaction is also in stark contrast to Grischuk's interview - in which he overcomes the crass attempted interruption by the host to lay the blame for the current crisis squarely at the door of Putin and the Russian government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFN0s53RpGY



* which in itself is certainly to FIDE's credit

[NickFaulks]

Also copied across

FIDE's frankly rather limp reaction is also in stark contrast to Grischuk's interview

But you would have preferred to have him banned from the tournament, so the interview would not have happened.

[Matt Bridgeman]

Is your issue with the Russian state or with the Russian people?

The sanctions and sporting measures clearly effect both. Probably a universal ban on competitions is the cleanest way forward, and probably what’s actually going to happen anyway.

Let's bring this closer to home. I run junior chess tournaments. A number of the entrants are Russian - or at the very least, the parents are Russian, so if I take the entry fee I am taking payment from a Russian citizen. On occasion I have heard two children analysing after the game in Russian. In some cases the FIDE nationality of the child is RUS.

Do you think I should ban these kids? Do you think other junior chess organisers should ban these children from events? Do you think the UK Chess Challenge and other such large events should ban such children from competing? If a child resident in the UK has a FIDE nationality of RUS, should they be banned from chess events in the UK?

(To be clear, not in a million years am I going to implement any such ban. But this is what a universal ban means - it's not something that just applies to GMs resident in Moscow, it will also apply to children living in the UK. I understand that emotions are running high, but I think distinguishing between the Russian state and Russian individuals is very important.)

It’s a tricky business. Here’s some reasoning from a junior international ban in America; https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/3/2/2 ... n-olympics

I guess we can hope for some sensible decisions being made for international events where teams are coming from Russia, and local/domestic amateur level events where it’s Russian adults/juniors living in a country on a visa and just wanting to play some chess.

[IM Jack Rudd]

A problem with banning Russians from individual events is simply this: how would you enforce it? Organizers are allowed to not reveal who has been playing in their tournaments until they send in the results for rating, at which point the event has happened and the player has played.

[JustinHorton]

Well yes, but it would presumably be possible to tell them (and I would not approve of this) that events including Russian competitors would not be rated?

[Joey Stewart]

You could refuse to grade any events where the organisers deliberately broke the rules - chess players put a lot of value on their ratings and tend to hold long grudges so it would seriously damage the reputation of any event organiser who refused to comply.

[David Sedgwick]

Yes but there is an enormous difference between barring representative Russian sides and barring people who are just Russian citizens.

There is indeed a big difference, but the direction of travel seems to be towards complete exclusion and ostracism of all Russians and all things Russian.

[Roger de Coverly]

I guess we can hope for some sensible decisions being made for international events where teams are coming from Russia, and local/domestic amateur level events where it’s Russian adults/juniors living in a country on a visa and just wanting to play some chess.

In the UK at least, chess isn't officially a sport, so no obvious legal need to ban Russian school children from chess toutnaments provided it's still allowed for them to be in the country and participate in local cultural or educational events.

[JustinHorton]

However the issue I am not sure everybody is grasping is the difference between being an official representative (even if disguised as in the "Russian Olympic commitee dodge) of a state and being just a member of that state, playing personally whether as an amaeteur or a professional. To be fair, as Nick observes above it's not so straightforward in chess and if I play in an international tournament I will have ENG next to my name and they may even put a flag on the table. But I think we would understand that I am not, as such, an official representative of England, and nor is somebody Russian in the same position.

[NickFaulks]

https://www.fide.com/news/1608
FIDE, of course, have suspended the World Team Championship for no readily apparent reason. Certainly for no reason that is explained in their announcement that the event is postponed.

I think the reasons were explained all too clearly.

"the participation of the Ukrainian team cannot be ensured and the Russian national team cannot be allowed to participate in the championship"

The first part constitutes good and sufficient reason in itself. The second will lead most people to think "so what?".

[Ian Thompson]

I guess we can hope for some sensible decisions being made for international events where teams are coming from Russia, and local/domestic amateur level events where it’s Russian adults/juniors living in a country on a visa and just wanting to play some chess.

You also have events and players between these two extremes. For example, a Russian player rated 2500 - 2600, living outside Russia, who either makes a living, or supplements their income, by coaching and playing in open tournaments. How should they be treated?