2016 Olympiad - Baku

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MJMcCready
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by MJMcCready » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:12 am

I hope the culture of chess doesn't change so that whenever an untitled player beats a Grand master they automatically fall under suspicion. That would be a great shame.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:54 am

NickFaulks wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote: Not unlike the pattern of Mihaela Sandu's games prior to the nonsense that occurred in last year's European Women's Individual :roll:
Comparing Sandu with Tang is disgusting. If Tang had not been found in possession of electronic communication devices I'm sure he would have received nothing but congratulations.
I wasn't comparing them I was comparing the pattern of game(s). Lower rated player wins due to mistakes from higher rated opponent. I have always been one of Mihaela's most vocal supporters even though this appears to put me at odds with the ACP and FIDE.

I have been asked via Facebook to contribute the following information on Tang though:

"He's 20, and young people are sometimes stupid.
Here's how he had the phone. Another player told me he was legging it, nearly missed the bus in.
Rushing, had phone on him, and whatever supposed check at the front there was didn't catch it.
2100 young player gets lucky when weak 2400 GM self-destructs.
Tang is really upset by the whole affair."

NickFaulks
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:04 am

LawrenceCooper wrote: I wasn't comparing them I was comparing the pattern of game(s).
It was an unfortunate choice of comparison.
I have always been one of Mihaela's most vocal supporters even though this appears to put me at odds with the ACP and FIDE.
ACP yes. FIDE's Anti-Cheating Committee supported her, then her case went to Ethics Commission, who accepted it ( they often don't ) and found against her accusers.
I have been asked via Facebook to contribute the following information on Tang though:

"He's 20, and young people are sometimes stupid.
Here's how he had the phone. Another player told me he was legging it, nearly missed the bus in.
Rushing, had phone on him, and whatever supposed check at the front there was didn't catch it.
2100 young player gets lucky when weak 2400 GM self-destructs.
Tang is really upset by the whole affair."
It's a tenable story, requiring the coincidence of three variously unlikely events. I'm not saying it couldn't be true, we shall never know.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:11 am

NickFaulks wrote:FIDE's Anti-Cheating Committee supported her, then her case went to Ethics Commission, who accepted it ( they often don't ) and found against her accusers.
This is welcome news, will the findings be made public and what punishment was handed out?

Chris Rice
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:31 am

Boris Avrukh thought this game by Kramnik was the best of the Olympiad. It is sublime but I thought I'd entered White's genius 17th move incorrectly when I first went through it. I'm guessing that if Tang had played it and not Kramnik we would have concluded no doubt that he was cheating even though the tactics are not difficult to see once you've seen the idea.


Mick Norris
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:40 am

Thanks Chris, yes, the Chess Mind analysis says "The conventional 17.b4 is good for White, but it's nowhere near as entertaining as Kramnik's move"

It has put Vlad's live rating to 2817.3, his career high being 2817.5
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NickFaulks
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:43 am

Chris Rice wrote: I'm guessing that if Tang had played it and not Kramnik we would have concluded no doubt that he was cheating
Yes, yes, and if Tang had then been caught with an electronic device in his bag. Just a teensy-weensy detail, I know. You can call me picky about things like that.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:45 am

Chris Rice wrote: I'm guessing that if Tang had played it and not Kramnik we would have concluded no doubt that he was cheating even though the tactics are not difficult to see once you've seen the idea.
It's often bad to give up two minor pieces for a rook, many players, assuming they had seen Be7 might reject it because of the counter sacrifice .. Rxd4.

Chris Rice
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:12 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Chris Rice wrote: I'm guessing that if Tang had played it and not Kramnik we would have concluded no doubt that he was cheating
Yes, yes, and if Tang had then been caught with an electronic device in his bag. Just a teensy-weensy detail, I know. You can call me picky about things like that.
Precisely, if Tang had played such a move and been caught with two electronic devices on him he would have had a ban slapped on him whether he used the devices or not. The fact that Tang didn't play such a startling move during his game combined with a rather flimsy cover story has seemingly let him off the hook.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:18 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
NickFaulks wrote:FIDE's Anti-Cheating Committee supported her, then her case went to Ethics Commission, who accepted it ( they often don't ) and found against her accusers.
This is welcome news, will the findings be made public and what punishment was handed out?
Hmm, I thought I saw that in Baku but all I can find in the papers I brought home is that the complaint was still under consideration. Watch their website, I suppose.
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NickFaulks
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:11 pm

NickFaulks wrote: Hmm, I thought I saw that in Baku but all I can find in the papers I brought home is that the complaint was still under consideration. Watch their website, I suppose.
I wrote to Francois Strydom, Chairman of Ethics Commission, who has responded promptly. What I remembered was in fact that an Investigatory Chamber of ACC has looked into this and concluded that Sandu's case had sufficient merit to be passed to EC. This is a slow process, not helped by ACC's twilight zone legal existence since the shambles in Tromso, but it is proceeding.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:11 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
NickFaulks wrote: Hmm, I thought I saw that in Baku but all I can find in the papers I brought home is that the complaint was still under consideration. Watch their website, I suppose.
I wrote to Francois Strydom, Chairman of Ethics Commission, who has responded promptly. What I remembered was in fact that an Investigatory Chamber of ACC has looked into this and concluded that Sandu's case had sufficient merit to be passed to EC. This is a slow process, not helped by ACC's twilight zone legal existence since the shambles in Tromso, but it is proceeding.
Thanks for the update.

Chris Rice
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:56 pm

Speaking of Romanian women chess players I was just reading Irina Bulmaga's blog where an unusual thing happened in one of her games at Baku:

"Another negative thing I had to experience was some arbiters' incompetence. Imagine the following situation: I am playing my game, the endgame looks quite drawish, though it's me who has to make the draw, I find some repetition, if my opponent doesn't go for it, I can finally have some ideas to improve my position, we've repeated the position for 2 times and suddenly my opponent goes to the arbiter saying she wants to ask the captain if to make a repetition or not, the arbiter allows her. I want to specify that there was no draw offer at all. Practically, my opponent was asking her captain "Should I make this move or not?". Despite our captain's protests nothing happened. The same situation happened to one of my teammates in another match, moreover, that other arbiter couldn't even speak English, though he was quite friendly with our opponents who were Spanish speakers as him and allowed the player to talk to the captain and ask about repetition."

Brian Towers
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by Brian Towers » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:50 pm

Chris Rice wrote:we've repeated the position for 2 times and suddenly my opponent goes to the arbiter saying she wants to ask the captain if to make a repetition or not, the arbiter allows her. I want to specify that there was no draw offer at all. Practically, my opponent was asking her captain "Should I make this move or not?". Despite our captain's protests nothing happened.
Quite right too. The FIDE Competition Rules have this to say -
FIDE Competition Rules wrote:12.5 A team captain is entitled to advise the players of his team to make or accept an offer of a draw unless the regulations of the event stipulate otherwise. He shall not intervene in a game in any other way. He must not discuss any position on any board during play.
The team captain even has the authority to proactively order the player to offer a draw although the player is not obliged (by FIDE) to follow such orders.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

NickFaulks
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Re: 2016 Olympiad - Baku

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:00 am

Brian Towers wrote: The team captain even has the authority to proactively order the player to offer a draw
Is this the correct interpretation of the Competition Rules? I'm not sure, although it does appear to read that way. In English club competitions, I have taken the view that a captain is not allowed to intervene to tell a player that a draw would be a good result, even though I might wish otherwise.
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