World Teams 2019

The very latest International round up of English news.
Tim Harding
Posts: 1732
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Contact:

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Tim Harding » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:11 pm

First observation, in response to the line in Justin's blog:
And has a team match ever been reduced to single combat in this way before?
Yes, I think it happens quite a lot in 4-board international team matches. As captain in two World Seniors Teams events I have seen quite a few matches reduced to 1 or 2 boards after an hour or less, whether or not by pre-agreement, more likely after the opening moves before games leave "book".
Though I never proposed it, or had it proposed to me.

Technically no conditions can be attached to a draw offer, e.g. "I agree a draw if your board 3 agrees it". See page 27 of the Arbiters Manual (comment to Article 9.1.2.3).

I think this is happens in Olympiads too in non-critical matches.
The team that is outrated is perhaps happy to get 1 or 1.5 board points (and probably some rating points) cheaply.

In the last World Senior Teams 65+ there were a few matches between German teams that were over 2-2 after 5 minutes. By the time I got to walk around, all players had left. Of course Seniors are more likely to be keen on a day off.

This case is a bit stranger. Maybe the losing player blundered so early that the captains or players just agreed to draw the other games but yes it does seem more likely that one of the players refused to be involved in a package deal.

The competition rules do not allow captains to agree results over the heads of their players, though perhaps in the past that was possible? They can ADVISE not COMPEL (FIDE Competition Rules 12.5 but I believe a new set of rules comes into effect in July; I have not seen the wording.)
Tim Harding
Historian and Kibitzer

Author of 'British Chess Literature to 1914', Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6098
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:04 pm

Tim Harding wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:11 pm


This case is a bit stranger. Maybe the losing player blundered so early that the captains or players just agreed to draw the other games but yes it does seem more likely that one of the players refused to be involved in a package deal.
One thing I don't know is whether the other games were still going when Fawzy played 10...Bd7, although my guess is not, because the games were so short in duration as far as moves are concerned that I don't suppose they reached the hour mark.

I was hoping the round-ups might shed some light on the match and whatever arrangement was made but there was nothing on chess.com and Chess24 don't seem to have reported the final round.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

NickFaulks
Posts: 4869
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:30 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:04 pm
One thing I don't know is whether the other games were still going when Fawzy played 10...Bd7, although my guess is not, because the games were so short in duration as far as moves are concerned that I don't suppose they reached the hour mark.
According to Chessbomb's move timings, the board four draw took about five minutes and the others about fifteen. This means that the last two players were sitting there by themselves by move 7.

You can't help wondering whether Fawzy was waiting for a draw offer which never came - it would of course have needed a plausible repetition.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 2800
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:29 pm

"It must be an encouraging sign that this forum is already discussing how to get rid of sponsors rather than how to find them. I hope the ECF Board takes due note."

er, yes - the poll here is currently 15-6 in favour of the sponsors, which suggests most people don't care one way or the other (and who knows what might have motivated some voters). I suspect most sponsors could attract some sort of criticism if you dug deep enough!

J T Melsom
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by J T Melsom » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:41 pm

I didn't vote - I'm not sure I'd regard a poll on this forum as terribly meaningful either way. I just felt that the points raised elsewhere merited slightly more than cursory consideration, even if the end decision reached was the same. After all we don't have alcohol and tobacco sponsors, so at a time when other sports are considering their relationship with betting companies, its not unreasonable for chess to undertake similar reflection.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6098
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:00 am

Quite so. In some ways the most important thing is sinply to broach the subject, rather than pretend it doesn't exist. That's been too common a habit in English chess.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Richard Bates
Posts: 2842
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:53 am

I don’t get this. This was not “the England team sponsored by PokerStars”. It was philanthropic sponsorship, not company sponsorship. There is no endorsement or promotion of a product behind accepting the money.

As long as the source of the money is legal, it is better that it is used for good causes (chess in this case the beneficiary) than sit in a bank account earning interest.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6098
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:06 am

Richard Bates wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:53 am
I don’t get this. This was not “the England team sponsored by PokerStars”. It was philanthropic sponsorship, not company sponsorship. There is no endorsement or promotion of a product behind accepting the money.
No, there's endorsement or promotion of its source.

Richard Bates wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:53 am
As long as the source of the money is legal
That's kind of the point at issue.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7221
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:15 am

Presumably the sponsorship enabled the team to be kitted out in the blazers they are wearing (so disappointed the forum hasn't had a big discussion about dress codes! :D ). Are any of the photos good enough to see what the badges say. I can't see any obvious signs of company names on there, so that would indicate that it is not that sort of sponsorship. More a donation than sponsorship then? (The discussions on this forum have probably given all this more publicity than any official chess-related publicity materials.)
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 2800
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:16 am

Is online gambling illegal in this country?

Mike Truran
Posts: 2385
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:18 am

Are any of the photos good enough to see what the badges say. I can't see any obvious signs of company names on there, so that would indicate that it is not that sort of sponsorship.
ECF logo.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 17869
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:26 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:15 am
Presumably the sponsorship enabled the team to be kitted out in the blazers they are wearing
I think they were wearing those at the Batumi Olympiad. There's yet to be a market established for replica chess kit.

NickFaulks
Posts: 4869
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:34 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:16 am
Is online gambling illegal in this country?
No, but then neither is selling beer or cigarettes. Some people consider all three to be immoral.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6098
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:29 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:16 am
Is online gambling illegal in this country?
No, but deceiving banks as to the purpose of accounts and transactions in order to hide illegal activity may well be.

Besides, as I observed last time this came up, when Isai Scheinberg wants to make a public statement explaining why he's on the Isle of Man and what should happen to the outstanding indictments against him, I'll take an interest in his defence. Until then he's just another fugitive from the law, no?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Nick Grey
Posts: 1089
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: World Teams 2019

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:40 pm

No. Not in this country or the Isle of Mann as far as I\m concerned.
Anyway it's private.
Poker is as much a game of skill as chess. So when I play on pokerstars I do not consider it gambling. Almost the same as playing tournament chess for money except for juniors.
Then again sooner we ban all the fast food, sugar, gambling, alcohol, smoking, cars (anything that pollutes), perfume, clothes, anything that is sexist that will be good but we will lost our sense of humour (& have to stop it too on the internet) as we can't have 1 yos coming across it whilst searching for Peppa Pig.
So going back to this I think it is fine for the World Team (hence I'm in the fifteen).
Well done team, coaches, management & those that arrange the financial support/donations.

Post Reply