Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:49 am

Also, hard to believe that figure has any validity unless we know with whom it originates.
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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:07 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:06 am
As reported by chessbase

https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-olympic-dream

The 600 million claim is back again
Leaders of the International and French chess federations met with the French press to promote the inclusion of chess, a sport with a genuine global appeal – FIDE has a membership of 189 national federations, and 600 millions of people practice chess in the world.
And gone again
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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:15 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:18 am
"CCTV5+ covers 600 million people in China and according to our correspondent for this event Liang Ziming, this game was watched by 60 million people. That could well be a record for our sport!"
Ok, my brother-in-law was on Chinese TV when he lived there, so I know it is a bit strange

Chinese population is 1.4 billion or so I think, and there are 3,000 channels available; CCTV-5+ was launched in 2013 and is available in HDTV format; do we think that the claim that it reaches 600m (that number again) is likely to be true, and that 10% of them watched the chess?

There's no way of verifying information coming out of China (I'm not picking on the Chinese, by the way, I'd say the same about most places these days, including Russia, USA and the UK)
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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:27 am


David Sedgwick
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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:30 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:27 am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/47317052

Chess-breakdancing anyone?
From the article linked by Kevin:

"Squash campaigned unsuccessfully for inclusion in the Paris Games, as did billiard sports and chess."

Is that the end of that?

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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:39 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:30 am
Is that the end of that?
I read the original announcement as the FFE looking for the lesser status of chess as a "demonstration" sport. In other words not part of the Olympics for medals etc., but taking part inside the publicity bubble.

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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:56 am

Interesting to see that Karate debuts for Tokyo 2020 only to be dropped for Paris 2024; shows that even getting into the Olympics doesn't mean the end of the story

LA 2028 would be the next target; given the strength of the US at chess, maybe that's a better chance (as Rex can "help" the application)
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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Alistair Campbell » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:31 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:43 pm
There is an article on the French Chess Federation website at http://www.echecs.asso.fr/Actu.aspx?Ref=11653.

The "600 million" claim doesn't feature there either, but Bachar Kouatly is quoted as follows:

"Bachar Kouatly a rappelé les chiffres clés des échecs:

• 10% des Français savent jouer aux échecs
Slightly off-topic, An interesting claim which contrasts markedly with the You Gov UK survey of 2012, which suggested:

12% play chess every year
28% have played chess as an adult, but not in the last year
30% have not played since childhood
31% have never played.

(Yes, the total rounds to 101%).

Is France markedly different chess-wise from the UK?
Are Kouatly's figures mince?
Are the You Gov figures mince?

I don't want to go all Delingpole in the face of evidence I refuse to believe, but is there any evidence for either

respondents to You Gov style surveys answering randomly or "approximately";
or respondents exaggerating their behaviour?

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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by David Robertson » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:04 pm

There are five people in my household. All play chess. But only one is a chess-player. All can ride a bike too. But none is a cyclist.

Don't think these surveys get us very far until they decide what they're measuring

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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:11 pm

Alistair Campbell wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:31 pm
Are the You Gov figures mince?
There's a blog which went into detail.
http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.c ... index.html

It was something of a weak question with a broad definition of what constituted "playing chess".

A control question should have been "do you have, or have you ever had a chess grade or rating?", since that can be verified up to a point by counting participants in grading or rating systems. Perhaps even just, "have you ever played chess in a competition?". If all those taking part in school or junior competitions were counted, that's probably a reasonably high number.

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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:38 pm

I've seen the YouGov survey questions and results, as has anyone who's read my piece. I have no idea how valid the results are because I don't know anything about the sampling method and I wouldn't have the expertise to judge it if I did.

Curiously, January's ECF Board minutes say this:
Tracey Barber of Havas gave a presentation on driving membership and participation, focussing on the challenges the ECF faces, potential areas of focus for developing the ECF's brand and offerings, and potential engagement strategies with social players, female players, juniors, and potential members. Tracy drew on, amongst other things, the data researched and produced by Havas for AGON WorldChess in 2013 which was the most comprehensive research ever undertaken into the profile of
those who play chess and the numbers participating.
Is this the same research? I've never heard of Havas before, so if it is, YouGov must have contracted out the research and I never knew, but if it isn't, AGON must have commissioned more than one piece of research on the same subject.
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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Simon Brown » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:52 pm

Havas is French and is one of the biggest PR and advertising agencies in the world.

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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:41 pm

"Squash campaigned unsuccessfully for inclusion in the Paris Games, as did billiard sports and chess."

I didn't read that far! Tennis and table tennis are included, so why not squash? Billiard sports would presumably include snooker, pool, billiards and the continental version of billiards, where there are no pockets and you can only score points for cannons. Perhaps they should update the shooting events by having a category for drones.

"Interesting to see that Karate debuts for Tokyo 2020 only to be dropped for Paris 2024"

It used to be the case that the host nation could put in a sport of its choice - so, for example, USA or Canada could have inserted some rodeo events. UK could have inserted shove-ha'penny, or shin kicking. Perhaps that rule has gone now?

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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:37 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:41 pm
It used to be the case that the host nation could put in a sport of its choice - so, for example, USA or Canada could have inserted some rodeo events. UK could have inserted shove-ha'penny, or shin kicking. Perhaps that rule has gone now?
I don't think that's ever been the rule.

The rules used to be that there were the Olympic sports, 28 in total, and they were fixed. They had to be widely practiced, defined as at least 75 countries and at least 4 continents. To apply, you had to meet various criteria; clearly chess would meet the 75 countries/4 continents criteria.

They've changed it now to a system I don't really understand, but the organisers seem to be able to add sports of their own choosing. It's not clear to me whether or not Baseball/Softball and Karate are in the Tokyo via that route, or whether they've reintroduced the sports to the programme indefinitely.

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Re: Chess Put Forward To Join Paris 2024 Olympic Games

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:42 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:30 am
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:27 am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/47317052

Chess-breakdancing anyone?
From the article linked by Kevin:

"Squash campaigned unsuccessfully for inclusion in the Paris Games, as did billiard sports and chess."

Is that the end of that?
Cuesports and Squash have been fighting a battle for some years to become established in the Olympics; I remember squash campaigning even in the 1990s. The days when Pakistan won everything are long gone, it's much more global than it was in the 1990s, but they don't seem to have had the recognition. The same is true with cuesports and the dominance of the UK, although their battle has only really been genuinely fought in the last few years. Chess is more global than both, but has been publicly campaigning for inclusion in Paris for what, 10 days?

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