ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:18 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:12 pm
It took me 25 years, but I eventually got the QC rules for title norms amended to be more user-friendly. It would be very, very rare now for a player to be unable to get a norm in Britain because he did not get the correct mix or zverage rating of opponents.
The last example I can think of where a norm failed for non-TPR reasons was Demeter at the last IOM. She got the required 2250 TPR, but failed to get a WIM norm because she didn't get a high enough score.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:27 pm

Jack - The opportunity was there, but she didn't get enough points. That happens all the time. I believe we have an Engish player who has plentry of norms, but has never managed to reach 2400.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:32 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:27 pm
Jack - The opportunity was there, but she didn't get enough points. That happens all the time. I believe we have an Engish player who has plentry of norms, but has never managed to reach 2400.
More than one - Sowray, Richardson and Jackson are three that I know of.

Not getting enough points happens all the time, yes. Not getting enough points while reaching the required TPR is much rarer, and probably only happens with any frequency with WIM norms.

Here's another one with a failed WIM norm: Akshaya Kalaiyalahan at the last British. Again, her TPR was over 2250, and she'd got a high enough score and six titled opponents... but only two of them had titles drawn from the set {GM, IM, WGM, WIM}.

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Paolo Casaschi
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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:06 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:12 pm
There is, or was, a special FIDE Rule that where countries were at war with each other, pairings fom those federations could be avoided. The problem with Israel is that several countries believe themselves to be at war with them, but Israel does not. Palestine, UAE. Yemen., etc.
It is all very well for the arbiter to say, you must play against an Israeli. But, it is a persuasive argument when he is from Palestine or Yemen and responds, 'Then, when I return home, that will be the end of me.'
Is there a way to change FIDE rules in such a situation in order to penalize the federations rather than the players?

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by David Robertson » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:36 pm

Paolo Casaschi wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:06 pm
Is there a way to change FIDE rules in such a situation in order to penalize the federations rather than the players?
Probably. But it doesn't resolve the practical problem: a Government noose trumps checkmate

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:07 am

Probably the way would be to exclude such federations from FIDE. But FIDE, as an organisation, strongly believes in its motto, Gens Una Sumus (or at least it used to). Also they want to have as many federations as possible that are countries in the UN. Moreover the players would suffer greater penalties.

One year Harandi came to play in the lloyds Bank Masters. He pointed out to me that chess, at that time, was banned in Iran,who were therefore not members of FIDE. His name did not appear in the Rating List. I telephoned Professor Lim Kok Ann, the Executive Director of FIDE and asked him what we could do. He said make him a member of the BCF and register him as ENG.
When the RSA was under sanctions from FIDE, South Africans came sometimes to play in Hastings. Ttey were registered with FIDE as ENG.
That may seem old hat. But neither Gibraltar, nor the Isle of Man can be in FIDE. Their events and players come under England.

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:04 am

Paolo Casaschi wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:06 pm
Is there a way to change FIDE rules in such a situation in order to penalize the federations rather than the players?
That cry has been heard for many years and in many contexts. The sad fact is that there is no way of hurting a federation that does not hurt its players.

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:44 pm

Paolo >Is there a way to change FIDE rules in such a situation in order to penalize the federations rather than the players?<

There is yet another point. The federation may not be to blame. It may well be the government of the country concerned.

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:02 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:44 pm
There is yet another point. The federation may not be to blame. It may well be the government of the country concerned.
If the federation allows itself to be used as an agent of the government, then it cannot expect to escape the consequences.

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:16 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:02 pm

If the federation allows itself to be used as an agent of the government, then it cannot expect to escape the consequences.
A lobbying group now seems involved.
http://www.uklfi.com/chess-progress

The publicity given to the player's refusal to play brought the issue to wider attention.

https://www.memri.org/tv/iranian-chess- ... ay-israeli

Does this end in any other way than banning players from Iran, Saudi Arabia and others from playing internationally?

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:02 pm

I found this one very sad. The perpetrator / victim was just home from an under 8 championship.

https://www.memri.org/tv/lebanese-chess ... transcript

Leonard Barden
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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by Leonard Barden » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:07 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:02 pm
I found this one very sad. The perpetrator / victim was just home from an under 8 championship.

https://www.memri.org/tv/lebanese-chess ... transcript
Looking at the pairings it is unclear, to me at least, what if anything actually happened.

https://info64.org/world-cadets-chess-c ... fo?fed=LBN

https://info64.org/world-cadets-chess-c ... fo?fed=ISR

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:20 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:07 pm
Looking at the pairings it is unclear, to me at least, what if anything actually happened.
Yes, I thought that at the time. Perhaps there was a re-pairing after the refusal.

edit : But it is also possible that it just didn't happen. He was a good candidate for the bye in the final round.

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by Leonard Barden » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:55 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:20 pm
Leonard Barden wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:07 pm
Looking at the pairings it is unclear, to me at least, what if anything actually happened.
Yes, I thought that at the time. Perhaps there was a re-pairing after the refusal.

edit : But it is also possible that it just didn't happen. He was a good candidate for the bye in the final round.
Much stronger than possible, surely? In a large field, the two Israelis were on 4.5/10 and the Lebanon boy only on 2/10. They played on boards 44 and 45, he got the bye on board 66.

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Re: ECU General Assembly Resolution on Boycotts

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:10 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:07 pm
Looking at the pairings it is unclear, to me at least, what if anything actually happened.
If the player, or most likely the parents, coach or manager, wanted to make a political gesture, refusing to play against ISR players is always possible, even when no pairings have been made or are even likely. It's a pre tournament request for special treatment.

Avoidance of controversial pairings been a routine treatment in British influenced tournaments and it's that the ECU want FIDE to ban.

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