FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

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Mick Norris
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:45 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:43 pm
David Antón Guijarro right in the mix now with his demolition of Grischuk.
Will be interesting to see how he goes tomorrow; presumably black v Aronian?
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Chris Rice
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:05 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:15 pm
David Shepherd wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:35 pm
Keith Arkell wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:51 am
This tournament is surreal.
Seems to be true today on boards 7 and 8 - currently not only an interesting position on both boards at move 19, but also the same position. :shock:
Karjakin
It appears the two games were separated by the Chief Arbiter under 11.3.1 so that they couldn't copy each other and the games immediately diverged.

What's more is that Emil Sutovsky praised Alex H for his decision on FB:
"Bold and correct decision by Alex Holowczak. Karjakin himself admitted afterwards that all four involved were following each other and copied moves (that actually led to a very poor quality of the games). As for the Chief Arbiter - he was guided by common sense - a quality too often neglected by even the experienced arbiters. There is no way to describe every situation in the Handbook, and a lot depends on professionalism and willingness to take a responsibility. In my opinion, Alex showed both."

Well played Alex!

Leonard Barden
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Leonard Barden » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:16 pm

Am I correct in writing that round nine pairings will be Aronian v Anton and Carlsen (upfloated) v Caruana?

Paul Cooksey
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:47 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:16 pm
Am I correct in writing that round nine pairings will be Aronian v Anton and Carlsen (upfloated) v Caruana?
yes http://chess-results.com/tnr478041.aspx ... =9&flag=30 I hope you made the deadline!

Leonard Barden
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Leonard Barden » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:19 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:47 pm
Leonard Barden wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:16 pm
Am I correct in writing that round nine pairings will be Aronian v Anton and Carlsen (upfloated) v Caruana?
yes http://chess-results.com/tnr478041.aspx ... =9&flag=30 I hope you made the deadline!
Yes, online now.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/chess

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:41 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:05 pm
It appears the two games were separated by the Chief Arbiter under 11.3.1 so that they couldn't copy each other and the games immediately diverged.
"11.3.1" wrote: During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.
It's possible that Alex had met the situation before in an English junior tournament. Separating the boards is a Stewart Reuben suggestion of many years ago. It remains courageous to insist this of the world's top players.

NickFaulks
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:13 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:41 pm
It remains courageous to insist this of the world's top players.
It sounds as though the players ( Karjakin, at least ) accepted that the state of affairs was unsatisfactory. No doubt more details will emerge in due course.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

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JustinHorton
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:42 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:41 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:05 pm
It appears the two games were separated by the Chief Arbiter under 11.3.1 so that they couldn't copy each other and the games immediately diverged.
"11.3.1" wrote: During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.
It's possible that Alex had met the situation before in an English junior tournament. Separating the boards is a Stewart Reuben suggestion of many years ago. It remains courageous to insist this of the world's top players.
Also it cropped up in the last round of the last Olympiad (China v USA) although in that instance I think the American players at least had expected that such a thing might happen.

Here's a similar experience I had some years ago.

It's possible that the players were relieved more than they were disturbed.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Chris Rice
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Chris Rice » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:36 am

Peter Doggers article on the last round includes an account of the 11.3.1 incident.

"The strange thing was that Karjakin's 18th move was a mistake, but copied by Shirov anyway, and Yu's 18th move was not the refutation, but was still copied by Dreev!

In any case, the big question was to what extent one player was following (copying?) one of the other players, and whether this was allowed.

The FIDE laws of chess state that during play "the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyze on another chessboard," but does that include looking at a neighbor's board?

By the time the diagram had been reached, the chief arbiter Alex Holowczak decided to end this little comedy and move one of the games, Shirov-Yu, to the other playing hall. From that moment the games immediately deviated, with White doing well in both but eventually only Karjakin won, while Shirov drew.

Holowczak made an appearance on Chess.com's live broadcast, and he made it clear that he did not suspect anyone of wrongdoing.

"In particular I saw Yu Yangyi sort of look quite nervous when he [looked] over to Dreev, who made a move maybe a minute or so before," said Holowczak. "So I thought in the interest of everybody feeling comfortable with the game it was better to just move it to the second hall so that nobody can accuse anyone of anything."

"Karjakin later tweeted with more explanation of what happened, which implied that if there was actual copying of moves involved, it was probably done by all four players."

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:10 pm

It looks like an excellent intervention by Alex - brave, as well, but more importantly, rightly judged.

Mick Norris
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:21 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:43 pm
David Antón Guijarro right in the mix now with his demolition of Grischuk.
He's certainly going for it today against Aronian

Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:35 pm

This seems to be the same line as played by Ding in the recent World Cup; and he had to struggle to hold the draw (with Black). Anton might have to do the same.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:37 pm

Still 30 pieces left on Keith's board. I expect that Alex H has noticed.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:43 pm

This seems to be so far a 40 minute think at move 17 (Carlsen). it does seem to be a very important decision though, whether to take on a7.

Mick Norris
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Re: FIDE Grand Swiss Tournament 2019 - Isle of Man

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:09 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:37 pm
Still 30 pieces left on Keith's board. I expect that Alex H has noticed.
In Keith we trust
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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