Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

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Mick Norris
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Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:48 am

Mark Crowther is reporting the Masters group as Carlsen, Caruana, Giri, Nepomniachtchi, So, Anand, Yangyi, Duda, Artemiev, Firouzja, Xiong, Dubov, Kovalev and Jorden van Foreest
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

David Sedgwick
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:21 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:48 am
Mark Crowther is reporting the Masters group as Carlsen, Caruana, Giri, Nepomniachtchi, So, Anand, Yangyi, Duda, Artemiev, Firouzja, Xiong, Dubov, Kovalev and Jorden van Foreest.
This is confirmed at https://www.fide.com/news/202.

Mick Norris
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:48 pm

Nepo has withdrawn and been replaced by Vitiugov

anti-cheating

Challengers has an interesting field as always

website
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Ian Thompson
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:02 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:48 pm
anti-cheating
Which applies to the Open and Amateur events, as well as the Masters and Challengers, and bans the wearing of watches (of any type).

If they think a cheat might be able to use an ordinary, non-smart watch to cheat, one wonders why they haven't banned many other items that are equally vulnerable as well. I'm reminded of the long list of items that Amazon Web Services ban from their exam rooms, which includes, for example, any item of jewellery over a certain, small, size, and, if I remember correctly, hair bands and the like.

Have they gone too far with banning all watches?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:18 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:02 pm
I'm reminded of the long list of items that Amazon Web Services ban from their exam rooms, which includes, for example, any item of jewellery over a certain, small, size, and, if I remember correctly, hair bands and the like.
Interesting. Is that something like what is stated here?

https://www.quora.com/Can-I-take-Amazon ... xam-online
the exam must be taken at a Kryterion testing facility.

When you arrive you sign in and place all your belongings in a locker. You are not allowed to take anything (wallet, phone, etc) with you into the testing room.

PCs are provided for you, in a room with a large window and video cameras so that your activities are monitored. The PC does not let you browse Google for the answers.

All of this ensures that you have the knowledge ingrained.
https://cloudacademy.com/blog/aws-certi ... to-expect/
The security procedures for AWS exams are very strict and prohibit personal items (notes, phones or laptops, backpacks, notepads), food, or drink in the test area. Eyewear, watches, or GPS tracking devices that are worn into the testing area may also be subject to inspection. You may request a whiteboard and marker from the exam proctor, and some facilities will allow you to request paper and pencil. The full admission requirements and security procedures are outlined in the first steps of the exam scheduling process.
Does anyone have access to the actual list of prohibited devices? I'd be interested to hear what exemptions they have in place for medical devices (presumably these are also subject to inspection).

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:20 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:02 pm
Have they gone too far with banning all watches?
Almost certainly. Banning headgear and earpieces makes sense as well if intending to thwart hidden communications.

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:15 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:18 pm
Does anyone have access to the actual list of prohibited devices?
I recently took an AWS exam at a Pearson Vue office. I was given a sheet of paper with a list of prohibited items; I can't find an online version of it.

I do remember being told I had to take my non-smart watch off. I don't think that were any surveillance cameras in the exam room. There definitely wasn't anyone invigilating.

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:53 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:20 pm
Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:02 pm
Have they gone too far with banning all watches?
Almost certainly. Banning headgear and earpieces makes sense as well if intending to thwart hidden communications.
The problem is that you think the distinction between a cheap £10 watch with a plastic strap and a mechanical clockface, and a smartwatch, is obvious. Unfortunately, that's not really the case. Most organisations decide to ban watches on the basis that they kept having interminable arguments with players, and ambiguity as to what is a smartwatch and what isn't, so they just ban all watches in the interest of an easy life.

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:12 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:53 pm
Unfortunately, that's not really the case.
Please explain why it's not obvious what a watch cannot do. Pens as well.

Put it this way, if an organiser tried running an event where participation was optional, a typical weekend tournament perhaps and tried banning watches and pens, attendance would be well down.

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:31 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:12 pm
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:53 pm
Unfortunately, that's not really the case.
Please explain why it's not obvious what a watch cannot do. Pens as well.

Put it this way, if an organiser tried running an event where participation was optional, a typical weekend tournament perhaps and tried banning watches and pens, attendance would be well down.
People aren’t going to play in chess tournaments in large numbers because they can’t wear a watch and they get given free pens*? It’s a view I suppose.

I would guess anyway that a corollary of Alex’s point is not that in most cases that it isn’t clear whether a watch is “smart” or not (the same could often be said of phones). But simply that if people aren’t wearing watches then there’s no need to go around checking them all.

*I’m sure 4ncl venues must notice a spike in the need to restock post chess weekends... ;)

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:44 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:31 pm
People aren’t going to play in chess tournaments in large numbers because they can’t wear a watch and they get given free pens? It’s a view I suppose.
It's a case of not allowing arbiters to make unreasonable demands. In the absence of a collaborator, a "smart watch" could only be used for cheating if playing on a DGT board without transmission delay and with coverage by chessbomb or other sites.

Was it not the case that the Telford smart watch cheat had a collaborator?

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:48 pm

I obviously don’t know what a smart watch is. I imagined it can run chess programs. Anyway at the end of the day organisers will do what’s right for them. I guess if necessary most would just go for the “in a bag” approach. Hardly a great imposition.

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:56 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:48 pm
I imagined it can run chess programs.
I expect so although some need an active mobile phone. If internet enabled, it could also look up the assessment on chessbomb or similar.

What was being suggested is that all watches were banned, which I would regard as over the top paranoia.

Richard Bates
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:12 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:56 pm
Richard Bates wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:48 pm
I imagined it can run chess programs.
I expect so although some need an active mobile phone. If internet enabled, it could also look up the assessment on chessbomb or similar.

What was being suggested is that all watches were banned, which I would regard as over the top paranoia.
Paranoia would be assuming that all watches can be used to cheat. Alex’s point was that sometimes organisers will opt for a solution (not allowing any watches as an alternative to having to check all of them) which allows them to concentrate on other things. It’s hardly an unreasonable position. Arguably even less unreasonable than completely banning the presence of phones! (given that carrying a phone these days is often almost a necessity for many people in a way that wearing a watch patently isn’t).

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:21 pm

If we are to be barred from wearing watches, I trust this will only happen in venues with visible and accurate clocks.
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