Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

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Daniel Gormally
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Daniel Gormally » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:13 pm

Anti-cheating is going too far if they are banning watches. of course you should be able to wear a bloody watch.

Just apply common sense. Most people aren't cheating, that's very clear. Why should the vast majority suffer because of a few bad apples.

Especially when it's very clear when someone is cheating. You can tell by their games. Well it's clear to me at any rate.

Mick Norris
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:23 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:57 pm
The record broken was Tiviakov's? No-one else has claimed anything beyond 110 games have they? I saw a mention somewhere that Carlsen doesn't think that two Norwegian League games he (Carlsen) played should be counted. Can anyone confirm that?
Tarjei's twitter has
Carlsen says his streak against top players is 109, and against good players it's 111. "Both are records, and I am pleased about that", he says.
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:31 pm

The two "weak" players were still stronger than certain of Tiviakov's opponents (they had actual official FIDE ratings for a start)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Daniel Gormally
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Daniel Gormally » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:59 pm

Carlsen's 110 unbeaten streak is of course impressive, although i do think there is too much made of these unbeaten streaks. I don't think chess is about staying unbeaten, I think it's at it's heart a fighting, creative game but what it does indicate is a hardiness of spirit in carlsen and an almost supermanlike level of accuracy in his move choice and a general consistency in performance that is at an astonishing level.

What I do wonder though is whether Carlsen would have stayed unbeaten for that length of time if his opponents actually threw the kitchen sink at him every game. Maybe a lot of the top players are simply afraid to take him on in complications? And of course quite a few of those games would have been fairly short draws.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:25 pm

Hi Danny,

I think this unbeaten run by a World Champion is good for chess and hopefully the media the will catch it when he finally drops a game.
He has come close to losing a few times but managed to confuse his opponents enough to save the game.

But I agree, players should all agree beforehand to give him gambits galore, one is bound to catch him.
(and we must not forget, everyone Carlsen has played in this streak has been lower rated than him...big deal!)

Not many short draws due to the short draw rule. A few 25 movers and that's it.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:40 pm

Arguably the most impressive aspect of this unbeaten run is that for the large majority of the games Carlsen *has* played "proper" chess.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:48 pm

Hi Matt,

Someone over at chessgames.com has posted this record of his games in the streak.

Rating range of opponents : 2311 - 2832

2300: 2
2400: 0
2500: 3
2600: 14
2700: 65
2800: 27

Most common opponents:
Caruana, Fabiano 18
Aronian, Levon 8
Anand, Viswanathan 7
Mamedyarov, Shakhriyar 7
Vachier-Lagrave, Maxime 7
Ding, Liren 6
Giri, Anish 5
Karjakin, Sergey 4
So, Wesley 4
Grischuk, Alexander 3
Nakamura, Hikaru 3
Nepomniachtchi, Ian 3
Radjabov, Teimour 2
Svidler, Peter 2
Van Foreest, Jorden 2
Yu, Yangyi 2

44 different opponents from 19 countries over 25 events over 11 different locations.

Daniel Gormally
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Daniel Gormally » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:02 pm

I would say that carlsen's biggest weapon other than his huge strength, is the fear factor that he strikes in opponents. he has a certain armour in the sense that players are wary of him and certainly some very strong players with white (like yu yangi two days ago for example) are just happy to play quietly with white and not really go for the jugular.

but ultimately, there's no denying that carlsen is an absolute beast. i just wonder if this whole propagating of the unbeaten streak is sending out the wrong message though. there's too much negativity particularly in grandmaster chess, and people too happy to take draws in situations where there is far too much play left. take this anand-giri game yesterday at wijk- to have a similar situation in say tennis, you'd have to have djokovic agreeing to a draw in a match wnen serving for the first set against nadal, They'd walk off and the crowd would start booing.

so the whole draw situation in chess is an artificial one. I wonder where the actual draw offer originated? who created it? and when? my guess would be somewhere in the middle of the 19th century, although I have literally no idea.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:26 pm

Anand-Giri is almost up there with Mamedyarov-Radjabov as a habitual non event though?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:01 am

There was the story of an English player (Atkins?) being offended by Capablanca and appearing before a simul by the great man, instructing the players to castle opposite sides from Capablanca, and pawn storm the king. Capa still scored heavily, but it was the worst score of the tour. However, this is a bit different from a proper tournament player independently going mad, when all the other players are trying to grovel a draw.

I'm also reminded of David Norwood saying it was easy to underestimate Kasparov, as when you played him, you discovered he was even better than you thought he was.

Brian Towers
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Brian Towers » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:31 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:23 pm
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:57 pm
The record broken was Tiviakov's? No-one else has claimed anything beyond 110 games have they? I saw a mention somewhere that Carlsen doesn't think that two Norwegian League games he (Carlsen) played should be counted. Can anyone confirm that?
Tarjei's twitter has
Carlsen says his streak against top players is 109, and against good players it's 111. "Both are records, and I am pleased about that", he says.
I thought Bogdan Lalic had a streak of about 150 back around 2010-11?
Unlike Carlsen some of his opponents were higher rated than him.
Or do these records only count if your rating is over 2700?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:05 am

Bogdan Lalic, who lives in Sutton, UK, informed the editors that from June 5 2006 until March 3 2007 he had played 110 games without defeat. He mentions that in that period he had a huge amout of draws (66) and improved his rating from 2480 to 2519. He had a second unbeaten run of 101 games in 2008.

Chris Rice
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Chris Rice » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:37 am

I remember playing at one of Sean Hewitt's tournaments near Gatwick about three years ago. I was playing a Mexican guy with a long name and as I arrived right at the start of the round I only started writing out his name once the clocks had started. By the time I had finished writing his name out Boggie had already agreed a draw with Fridman.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by Nick Burrows » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:50 am

Does he ever refuse a draw offer?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Tata Steel 10th-28th Jan 2020

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:20 pm

I'm seeing BOGDAN LALIC REFUSED MY DRAW OFFER T-shirts here
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