St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

The very latest International round up of English news.
Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 3792
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:10 am

"I'm slightly surprised no one appears to have let engines loose on the 960 initial positions with a view to discovering any instant wins. Perhaps they have and have kept the results of the analysis under wraps."

There are apparently some positions where white has a significant advantage. There also messy ones, where the Q is on "a" and a B on "h", where 1.g3 makes like difficult for black, who probably has to play a5 to get the Q out, of course black can just go 1....g6.

NickFaulks
Posts: 5884
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:29 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:10 am
There are apparently some positions where white has a significant advantage.
This has been stated without proof for years, but nobody with the necessary backup can be bothered to check, or at least to publish their results. You would think AlphaZero could do it in a few hours.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 3792
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:06 pm

"This has been stated without proof for years, but nobody with the necessary backup can be bothered to check, or at least to publish their results. You would think AlphaZero could do it in a few hours."

That's why I cautiously said, "apparently"! I haven't found any theory for 960, but there must be some...

Nick Grey
Posts: 1549
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:08 pm

Maybe when there are early resignations but using engines is cheating.

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by Wadih Khoury » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:15 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:29 pm
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:10 am
There are apparently some positions where white has a significant advantage.
This has been stated without proof for years, but nobody with the necessary backup can be bothered to check, or at least to publish their results. You would think AlphaZero could do it in a few hours.
Probably a bit more: a one minute evaluation per starting position would take more than 15 hours.
A one hour per position would require 40 days of non stop crunching.

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:08 pm

Even the latter is probably "doable" by somebody somewhere you might have thought.....
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Matt Fletcher
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:42 pm

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by Matt Fletcher » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:51 pm

It’s been done - a couple of years ago - by the Sesse supercomputer

Article

Sesse analysis spreadsheet

NickFaulks
Posts: 5884
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:13 pm

Matt Fletcher wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:51 pm
It’s been done - a couple of years ago - by the Sesse supercomputer

Article

Sesse analysis spreadsheet
Thanks, how had I never seen that? I have been bleating for some time that it really should exist!

I find the spreadsheet more interesting than the chat. The next question is, for the top example, is a +.67 evaluation sufficient to remove this starting position from the 960? I leave this to serious players who understand these things far better than I do, but it is an important point if 960 is, as I hope, to become a serious option.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18989
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:48 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:13 pm
The next question is, for the top example, is a +.67 evaluation sufficient to remove this starting position from the 960? I leave this to serious players who understand these things far better than I do, but it is an important point if 960 is, as I hope, to become a serious option.
It might be better expressed the way Alpha Zero did it as a winning percentage. In conventional chess, 0.67 is "White is (much) better".

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 3792
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: St Louis Chess9LX September 11-13 2020

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:57 pm

In the CC event, you play each opponent with both colours in the same starting position, so +0.67 in one game is -0.67 in the other. We are playing different starting positions against each opponent however.

Post Reply