Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

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Nick Ivell
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:12 pm

My apologies for the repetition. At least it brooked no argument though.

Yes, Nigel got hacking chances in some of those games. That's all they were though: hacking chances.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:17 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:02 pm
Nigel was completely outclassed in those anti-Marshalls. Kasparov simply understood those positions better.
Well yes, which begs the question as to why he deviated
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Nick Ivell
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:26 pm

The game I remember is where Kasparov simply went Nh4 to g6 (exploiting the pin). That's the two bishops, thank you very much!

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:06 pm

Short was still better when he lost the first game on time, though? Or at the very least, not obviously worse.
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Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:48 pm

Short was indeed much better at that point; kasparov had drifted. no such chances in games 3 and 7, though GK himself was still not entirely happy with those either.

Oddly I was wondering the same as Justin - why did Kasparov deviate from a winning formula? It is not explained in his great predecessor account, where he only mentions the importance of playing Nd2-f1 - g3 or - e3, instead of an early Nc3, crediting the point to Geller. My best guess: he was generally dissatisfied with his play in 1993 and was changing openings in the hope he would start to play better (to his own eyes).

But how well are you likely to play, at 7.5 - 2.5 ahead?

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Ivell » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:10 pm

Strangely enough, when I played Karpov ten years earlier (albeit in a simul), he played a Nc3. Maybe Geller had not made his point?

In the event I was positionally outplayed - never have I been more outplayed - but then Anatoly blundered his e pawn and I was able to draw. Happy memories.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:17 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:48 pm
Short was indeed much better at that point; kasparov had drifted. no such chances in games 3 and 7, though GK himself was still not entirely happy with those either.

Oddly I was wondering the same as Justin - why did Kasparov deviate from a winning formula?
My - totally idle ill-informed - speculation is that he did it because he could. I mean, he had this second string weapon against 1 ... e5 and 1 d4 up his sleeve too. Why not keep Short under pressure of having on many different fronts. It was hardly a risk given the match score.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:51 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:10 pm
Strangely enough, when I played Karpov ten years earlier (albeit in a simul), he played a Nc3. Maybe Geller had not made his point?

In the event I was positionally outplayed - never have I been more outplayed - but then Anatoly blundered his e pawn and I was able to draw. Happy memories.
appparently geller tried coaching karpov in the early 1970s (or was it late 60s?) and gave up. too different in temperament and approach to the game, it seems. Not that Geller properly coached kasparov either but maybe they had an easier relationship? (It would help that they were never rivals). Kasparov's account was simply that he anticipated the Marshall, lacked experience in playing against it and thought Geller might have useful advice.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:58 pm

Hi James,

Thanks for the tip but I'm I'm happy at chess24 till they fix chessgames.

These anti Marshalls also reminded me of 1993. One of the best chess title matches ever. Toe to toe stuff.
Yes Nigel was unlucky in game one. Gary offered a draw on move 38. Nigel moved and lost on time making his 39th move.

In game 3 again Nigel in serious time trouble after throwing everything at Gary missed giving an 'in-betweener'
Queen check that held very good drawing chances. Even Gary agreed it would have been good enough to draw.

Game 5 and I'll add my ' totally idle ill-informed - speculation.' Gary possibly switched to 1.d4 to cross up Nigel's team
who would have been working on anti-Marshalls.
Instead he walked into a beautifully prepared line and drew. Nigel took 11 minutes for the whole game. Gary 1½ hours.

In Game 7 Kasparov went back to 1.e4 and played a wonderful game. Nigel rated it as Gary's best yet in the match.

Great Days. This match is shaping up nicely for a few real crackers. I've not checked but I'm thinking the William Hills
odds of 4-1 against Nepo will have altered drastically in his favour.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:06 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:58 pm
This match is shaping up nicely for a few real crackers. I've not checked but I'm thinking the William Hills
odds of 4-1 against Nepo will have altered drastically in his favour.
Odds I'm seeing are 45-17 (somewhere between 5-2 and 11-4 in more familiar odds) against Nepo.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:11 pm

Moving in a more plausible direction then - not because anything very surprising has happened, but because such odds (4-1) were a touch silly in the first place. (Or if they were accurate, then only because they only referred to Carlsen winning eventually - not necessarily easily)

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:19 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:11 pm
but because such odds (4-1) were a touch silly in the first place.
Did anyone actually get on at 4-1? I never saw that.
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:54 pm

538 crunched the numbers, by the way, and the probabilities they came up with suggested that with the original 4-1 odds, you should have bet on Carlsen.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Geoff Chandler » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:59 pm

I put this on just before it slipped out to 4-1. I did not think the odds would get any better.

Image

I know two others who have it a 4-1 with £10 bets.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:20 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:54 pm
538 crunched the numbers, by the way, and the probabilities they came up with suggested that with the original 4-1 odds, you should have bet on Carlsen.
I have always enjoyed dealing with people like that, though you have to get in quick before they lose all of their money.
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