Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

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Alex Longson
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Alex Longson » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:14 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:11 pm
Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:52 pm
Its officially over.
Biggest massacre since 1984
1993 ?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:23 pm

I make it the highest absolute winning margin since 1993, and the highest percentage score by the winner since 1910.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:42 pm

Alex Longson wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:14 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:11 pm
Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:52 pm
Its officially over.
Biggest massacre since 1984
1993 ?
1984 is what I meant
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:47 pm

you mean Karpov was 5-0 up in 1984, and it was just when 1985 started that things changed? but no, Kasparov v Short was 6-1, and a completed match to boot.

well, we have had enough close matches overall, I think. We are probably due one or two more one-sided matches, in fact.

And as for today, didn't everyone want it to be over?

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:22 pm

<pedant mode on> In actual fact GK made it 5-1 in late 1984 <pedant mode off>

(the game after Karpov had missed a genuine chance to get his cherished 6-0, in fact)
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Nick Burrows
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:42 am


Matthew Turner
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Matthew Turner » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:58 am

Nick Burrows wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:42 am
Carlsen reveals his team: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEjEZuWatUg
That is fascinating

Nick Ivell
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:07 am

All in all, a disappointing match. I don't think Nepo had the belief.

A successful challenge will look very different, with a younger challenger establishing some authority early in the match.

When will it come? Hard to say. It might not happen until Magnus hits his early forties, when his incredible stamina will start to wane in the natural course of things.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:19 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:58 am
Nick Burrows wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:42 am
Carlsen reveals his team: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEjEZuWatUg
That is fascinating
Very; he had Grandelius in the past, maybe Shankland as well?
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:21 am

Martin Benjamin wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:53 pm
I could understand the two blunders in the other games - one can overlook Qa3+ and c6 as candidate replies in the respective games. But this is incomprehensible. If you play g3, you know that dxe3 followed by exf2+ is a possible reply and you are forced to consider it.
According to the interview in the TWIC report, he missed Qxg4+
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Nick Ivell
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:20 am

So is it now a secret (during the match) who the seconds are, if I may use that old-fashioned term?

If so, why?

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:24 am

Possibly it offers an idea of potential opening expertise within the camp; eg Gustaffson is a known Marshall expert

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:28 am

Must be fun being part of that secret coterie, and Magnus looked like a congenial boss.

I hope he pays well!

For what it's worth, I didn't like the ...Rb8 anti-Marshall defence; I'm guessing Jan had good reasons for recommending it, to me opaque.

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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:39 am

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:20 am
So is it now a secret (during the match) who the seconds are, if I may use that old-fashioned term?

If so, why?
Yes, the first (?) Anand - Carlsen match, the question was asked, Vishy answered and was surprised when Magnus refused to say
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Carlsen v Nepomniatchi 2021 World Championship

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:05 pm

For the record (so as not to be reliant on a link to YouTube) the complete list of seconds is as follows:

Peter Heine Nielsen
Laurent Fressinet
Jan Gustafsson
Jorden van Foreest
Daniil Dubov

I think Magnus's comments (tongue-in-cheek) were as follows:

Peter: Leader of the group, adult in the room, and the only smart guy here.
Fressinet: Most important member, here since 2013 match, glue in the group
Gustafsson: go-to guy for medium and low culture references (and the anti-Marshall)
Van Foreest: known as the new guy, punch bag in blitz games, comes up with new ideas
Dubov: Not as young as van Foreest, but still has the curiosity of youth and more selective and stable with age

Creative ideas from Daniil and Jordan. Boring ideas from Laurent. Good ideas from Jan. Crazy ideas from Peter. The ideas that were found to be good were Daniil's. And Daniil then spoke about Carlsen and the way his 'European' approach contrasts with the approach of the Russians (I think he means both Karjakin and Nepo).

It is a very nice dynamic, doubtlessly aided by the Spanish sunshine and nice villa they are in! Van Foreest had such a big grin on his face. Dubov looked a bit miserable, but broke out into a grin as Carlsen talked about him. I think the other key part of the dynamic, not mentioned in the video that much, is the attitude Carlsen adopts.

I do wonder if there are tensions that don't get talked about, and who handles the delicate negotiations over how much they all get paid. I think we can surmise from the good group dynamic that they are all happy at what they are being paid!

One final point: the real test of a dynamic like this will be when Carlsen is down in a match and needs to win to retain his title, and/or his opening preparation has been busted. Maybe when that happens, it will be a different team and not the one seen here.

Also wonder if Dubov will ever have future ambitions of his own on the title? (Van Foreest is young enough, but I don't think he is considered a future challenger.)
Last edited by Christopher Kreuzer on Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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