44th Chess Olympiad, Moscow

[Nick Burrows]

Denazify Ukraine

Defending Russia from those who have taken Ukraine hostage

I want to emphasise again that all responsibility for the possible bloodshed will lie fully and wholly with the ruling Ukrainian regime.

Sounds like his intellect has started to depart from reality in a very concerning manner to me

[JustinHorton]

If intellectual incoherence were to be taken as a sign of psychiatric disorder, how would this forum get on?

[Matt Mackenzie]

I mean, whilst I'm not going to attempt an actual diagnosis of his mental health isn't this just slightly disturbing?

Of course it is, and why is it not just belligerent nationalism of a kind we're actually quite familiar with? Why is anything to do with anybody's mental state?

Well for one thing, whilst he was always a belligerent Russian nationalist (which of course helps explain why he has genuine support in his country) he has only said stuff like *this* recently - after he has spent the past few years getting totally paranoid about catching Covid, greatly restricting the number of people he mixes with and speaks to, and reading stuff like Dugin's 21st century attempt to imitate Mein Kampf.

Yes, its worrying.

[JustinHorton]

he has only said stuff like *this* recently

What is your reason for saying so?

I mean, whilst I'm not going to attempt an actual diagnosis of his mental health

You said this above. Can I seriously suggest that you stick to it? I'm not aware that neither of us possesses the knowledge or experience to mske it any kind of a worthwhile exercise. Whereof one cannot speak, etc. We're in an incredibly dangerous situation, probably the most dangerous of our lives, and the least we can do is say less that we are not sure of.

[JustinHorton]

(Lord, I can think of a prominent English chess personality who was for some reason given space in a major chess magazine to write "Scotland was, presumably, correctly deemed not to be a nation". Was this evidence of psychiatric deterioration or of being a boorish nationalist loudmouth?)

[Matt Mackenzie]

he has only said stuff like *this* recently

What is your reason for saying so?

Because it appears to be true?

Certainly his past pronouncements about these things are on the record, and they are at least *somewhat* different.

You are correct this is potentially a very dangerous situation, but that is primarily (even if not entirely) due to one man.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"He probably wont see your post "

Superb. When I questioned John Foley on something, I assumed he didn't have an answer (he probably didn't), but he might previously have made me a foe (for uttering truths he found uncomfortable) so never realised what I said.

I do agree with Justin that randomly calling people mad because you disagree with them is not helpful.

I'm not sure that banning Russia from sporting events is helpful either, especially if you let them in anyway as long as they don't have a flag.

Maybe two extremely rich Russians turning on Putin will help...

(It's also easy to criticise Trump, but at least he likes Britain, and Biden doesn't.)

[JustinHorton]

Putin denied Ukraine's existence in 2014.

[Source: James Meek in the London Review of Books, 6 January 2022.]

[Martin Benjamin]

There has been plenty of informed and intelligent speculation about Putin's state of mind from mental health professionals, and many who have known him. To take just one example, Andrei Illarionov towards the end of this interview (link below) makes an observation about a change he thinks has taken place in Putin's mental state compared with the man with whom he worked 20 years ago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0brn95p

Twenty years in power, without the checks of an opposition and the need to argue for policies in the absence of meaningful elections, and operating very much within a restricted circle of "soloviki" as his advisers is a combination which could well have taken its toll. Based on his recent statements, and on the observations of those who know and have dealt with him, I think his ability to take a realistic view of risk and reward with regard to his decisions is a now legitimate cause for concern and a deeply worrying one.

[NickFaulks]

Well I guess then it's really up to Nick to reply, but it seems to me that you may be responding to an argument he has not made.

Correct. My suggestion is that Putin might be thinking "I must do it to them before they do it to me". After all, they did it to Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Afghanistan... and Matt's disapproval did not deter them.

[Gerard Killoran]

There has been plenty of informed and intelligent speculation about Putin's state of mind from mental health professionals...

I would say that any 'mental health professional' should not indulge in 'informed and intelligent speculation ' about the mental health of someone they have never met, just seen on TV or read about online. In the USA it is known as the 'Goldwater Rule', named after another right-wing politician.

The American Psychiatric Association (APA) sets out the Goldwater rule thus: “On occasion psychiatrists are asked for an opinion about an individual who is in the light of public attention or who has disclosed information about himself/herself through public media. In such circumstances, a psychiatrist may share with the public his or her expertise about psychiatric issues in general. However, it is unethical for a psychiatrist to offer a professional opinion unless he or she has conducted an examination and has been granted proper authorisation for such a statement.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tal-health

I'd guess that, as is usual in these circumstances, there has been mostly ill-informed and unintelligent speculation from mental health amateurs.

[Gerard Killoran]

And maybe Andrei Illarionov isn't the most reliable source of information...

The libertarian Cato Institute is investigating a blog post published by one of its senior fellows, a former economic policy adviser to Russian President Vladimir Putin, that contains conspiracy theories about the 2020 election and seeks to defend pro-Trump rioters who stormed the Capitol last week.

Andrei Illarionov, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute’s Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity, made baseless accusations in a post on his personal Live Journal blog on Friday that the storming of the capitol was a “trap” set by police following deliberate “provocation” by Black Lives Matter activists and Democrats.

He also amplified unfounded claims about antifa infiltrating the protests, claimed it is “still unknown” who won the 2020 presidential election, accused the leadership of the Democratic Party of "seeking to establish its monopoly dominance in the country,” and wrote that rioters were “definitely not” violating the U.S. Constitution when they broke into the building.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/1 ... ies-458248

[JustinHorton]

Twenty years in power, without the checks of an opposition and the need to argue for policies in the absence of meaningful elections, and operating very much within a restricted circle of "soloviki" as his advisers is a combination which could well have taken its toll. Based on his recent statements, and on the observations of those who know and have dealt with him, I think his ability to take a realistic view of risk and reward with regard to his decisions is a now legitimate cause for concern and a deeply worrying one.

It really should not be necessary to point out the large difference between bad decision-making and its causes on the one hand and madness and its causes on the other.

[Nick Burrows]

It really should not be necessary to point out the large difference between bad decision-making and its causes on the one hand and madness and its causes on the other.

Putin's actions are not "Intellectual incoherence" or "bad decision making". They are at best caused by some kind of psychological illness, at worst they are just coldly calculated and criminal.

[Simon Rogers]

It really should not be necessary to point out the large difference between bad decision-making and its causes on the one hand and madness and its causes on the other.

Putin's actions are not "Intellectual incoherence" or "bad decision making". They are at best caused by some kind of psychological illness, at worst they are just coldly calculated and criminal.

You're definitely right on that Nick. You always talk sense on the forum.
Amnesty International have confirmed Russia has used cluster bombs in parts of Ukraine, one killed a six year old girl and injured others at a preschool.
A number of British newspapers both left and right wing have reported that Putin has used thermobaric weapons in the war, thus breaking the Geneva Convention.
It was thought that he used them in Syria and Chechnya aswell.