44th Chess Olympiad, Moscow

[JustinHorton]

For example, a Russian player rated 2500 - 2600, living outside Russia, who either makes a living, or supplements their income, by coaching and playing in open tournaments. How should they be treated?

They should be left alone.

[Roger de Coverly]

But I think we would understand that I am not, as such, an official representative of England, and nor is somebody Russian in the same position.

There are however some sporting authorities which would require domestic permission to play outside the country and would sanction the individual for unauthorised activity. That would apply to Iranians playing against Israeli players as an example.

There was a period when the ECF would cancel someone's international rating if they played as ENG in a FIDE rated event without having paid a Gold membership fee to the ECF.

Around thirty years ago, perhaps lomger, there was pressure on the BCF to sanction the then British champion for playing in a tournament in South Africa.

[Ian Thompson]

I think the reasons were explained all too clearly.

"the participation of the Ukrainian team cannot be ensured and the Russian national team cannot be allowed to participate in the championship"

The first part constitutes good and sufficient reason in itself. The second will lead most people to think "so what?".

I don't think the second part was clear - does it mean "Russia can't compete now, but, if we delay the event to November, they might be able to" or "Russia can't compete ever so we need time to find a replacement team/reorganise the event in some other way"?

[JustinHorton]

Around thirty years ago, perhaps longer, there was pressure on the BCF to sanction the then British champion for playing in a tournament in South Africa.

Well yes, because there was an international sporting boycott of South Africa. Interestingly though it didn't apply (and as I recall was not intended to apply) to South African sportspeople playing abroad, which is why for instance you could go to a cricket match in England and see Barry Richards or Clive Rice. This didn't require the people concerned to make any condemnations, or any declarations about their views. They could play because they weren't representing South Africa.

[Matt Bridgeman]

I guess we can hope for some sensible decisions being made for international events where teams are coming from Russia, and local/domestic amateur level events where it’s Russian adults/juniors living in a country on a visa and just wanting to play some chess.

You also have events and players between these two extremes. For example, a Russian player rated 2500 - 2600, living outside Russia, who either makes a living, or supplements their income, by coaching and playing in open tournaments. How should they be treated?

Probably they shouldn’t be treated any differently to Russians working in jobs outside of Russia. It’s hard to predict how bad tensions will get if Russia maintain a long term occupation of Ukraine. The West will not be able to back down and at that point you’d wonder if Russian individuals will start to get ejected back to Russia. It’s kind of hard to predict where this is all heading.

[Jonathan Bryant]

Yes but there is an enormous difference between barring representative Russian sides and barring people who are just Russian citizens.

There is indeed a big difference, but the direction of travel seems to be towards complete exclusion and ostracism of all Russians and all things Russian.

David,

I wasn't sure if you were talking within the chess world here, or more generally. Although I suspect broadly speaking you may be correct in either case. I read this morning of an Italian university deciding it would no longer teaching Dostoevsky on its literature courses. Which seems somewhat absurd to put it mildly.


Anyway, back to FIDE particularly and how well it's been handling things. I've not seen it mentioned on this thread yet that the Ukrainian chess federation/national team members asked a week ago that,

"all national federations ... to condemn the conduct of the FIDE leadership and re-elect its governing bodies ... to ban participation of the reps of the Russian Federation in new FIDE elections"

https://chess24.com/en/read/news/fide-s ... s-olympiad


That's an opinion worth bearing in mind, I think.

[Chris Goodall]

Leverage, innit.

"Can we discuss why your chess federation has banned Russian competitors who've done nothing wrong?"
"Sure, after we discuss why you've bombed residences in Kharkiv whose inhabitants have also done nothing wrong."

[Jonathan Bryant]

I don't think the second part was clear - does it mean "Russia can't compete now, but, if we delay the event to November, they might be able to" or "Russia can't compete ever so we need time to find a replacement team/reorganise the event in some other way"?

Quite. FIDE could have chosen to make this clear if they'd wanted to.

The FIDE statement is also - by any measure - considerably less clear than the wording FIFA/UEFA managed to find. Again this is clarity that FIDE could have achieved if they'd wanted to.






On the matter of individual players - about which I'm considerably more ambivalent - it seems that Poland has chosen to ban all Russians/Belarussians.


https://twitter.com/chessilla/status/14 ... 6811285506

[NickFaulks]

"Sure, after we discuss why you've bombed residences in Kharkiv whose inhabitants have also done nothing wrong."

But Alexander Grischuk hasn't bombed anything in Kharkiv. He just happened to be born in Moscow.

Putin would probably say that Grischuk can find lots of perfectly good chess opponents in Russia. This was a popular view in the old Soviet Union.

[David Sedgwick]

I wasn't sure if you were talking within the chess world here, or more generally. Although I suspect broadly speaking you may be correct in either case.

I was primarily speaking more generally, but suggesting that, willingly or unwillingly, the chess world might need to follow suit.

Anyway, back to FIDE particularly and how well it's been handling things. I've not seen it mentioned on this thread yet that the Ukrainian chess federation/national team members asked a week ago that,

"all national federations ... to condemn the conduct of the FIDE leadership and re-elect its governing bodies ... to ban participation of the reps of the Russian Federation in new FIDE elections"

That's an opinion worth bearing in mind, I think.

There is an emergency meeting of the Board of the European Chess Union today. The Ukrainian Chess Federation have requested approval of a motion along the above lines

We wait to hear what the ECU have to say.

[Chris Goodall]

"Sure, after we discuss why you've bombed residences in Kharkiv whose inhabitants have also done nothing wrong."

But Alexander Grischuk hasn't bombed anything in Kharkiv. He just happened to be born in Moscow.

Of course. But that's one of the hazards of deliberately dropping bombs on residential buildings in Kharkiv: there is no possible reaction by the West that would be fair retribution for that crime, so you force them to turn to the list of unfair reactions - or let you get away with it.

[JustinHorton]

there is no possible reaction by the West that would be fair retribution for that crime, so you force them to turn to the list of unfair reactions - or let you get away with it.

This is nonsense, and immoral nonsense at that

[Richard Bates]

there is no possible reaction by the West that would be fair retribution for that crime, so you force them to turn to the list of unfair reactions - or let you get away with it.

This is nonsense, and immoral nonsense at that

Fundamental basis for the nuclear deterrent and MAD though, so mild by comparison.

[Chris Goodall]

there is no possible reaction by the West that would be fair retribution for that crime, so you force them to turn to the list of unfair reactions - or let you get away with it.

This is nonsense, and immoral nonsense at that

International relations work on the principle of leverage, Justin. A strongly-worded blog post calling for more diplomacy doesn't count as leverage.

[JustinHorton]

Fundamental basis for the nuclear deterrent and MAD though, so mild by comparison.

Well not really, since the whole point about MAD is the level of destruction.