Carlsen resigns on move 2

[Keith Arkell]

I never doubted for one moment that Carlsen withdrew from Sinquefield because he was confident Niemann is a serial cheat. For me it was impossible to entertain any other explanation.

I think it is most likely that after Magnus seriously considering withdrawing as soon as he learned of Niemann's last minute invitation (which Fabi has now confirmed to be the case), but then not doing so, the matter played on his mind and badly affected his play during his actual game v Niemann ( which was most likely an honest game). I guess many of us know how hard it is to play against someone we fear might cheat during the game.

I think Magnus then boiled over after playing the game awfully, and mis-timed his protest. Ideally he should have protested in a different way, but even had the game gone his way it was only a matter of time before the beans got spilt.

I could be wrong but that's my two pennies worth.

[MJMcCready]

I never doubted for one moment that Carlsen withdrew from Sinquefield because he was confident Niemann is a serial cheat. For me it was impossible to entertain any other explanation.

I think it is most likely that after Magnus seriously considering withdrawing as soon as he learned of Niemann's last minute invitation (which Fabi has now confirmed to be the case), but then not doing so, the matter played on his mind and badly affected his play during his actual game v Niemann ( which was most likely an honest game). I guess many of us know how hard it is to play against someone we fear might cheat during the game.

I think Magnus then boiled over after playing the game awfully, and mis-timed his protest. Ideally he should have protested in a different way, but even had the game gone his way it was only a matter of time before the beans got spilt.

I could be wrong but that's my two pennies worth.

Well it's not about right or wrong but more so interpretation. The bottom line is Magnus could easily have voiced his concerns and hasn't. That is the cause of all the problems and has resulted in it turning into a scandal. He was outplayed and his behaviour was not very sporting. The whole thing has been handled very poorly and the world champion really should shoulder the blame for that.

[John Brewitt]

On a lighter note, I spotted this on the Coffee Chess Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHzK5DFFVBE

Niemann is as cocky as Boston Mike. (mate in 7). Some of the comments are quite entertaining.

[Kirk Gornall]

I never doubted for one moment that Carlsen withdrew from Sinquefield because he was confident Niemann is a serial cheat. For me it was impossible to entertain any other explanation.

I think it is most likely that after Magnus seriously considering withdrawing as soon as he learned of Niemann's last minute invitation (which Fabi has now confirmed to be the case), but then not doing so, the matter played on his mind and badly affected his play during his actual game v Niemann ( which was most likely an honest game). I guess many of us know how hard it is to play against someone we fear might cheat during the game.

I think Magnus then boiled over after playing the game awfully, and mis-timed his protest. Ideally he should have protested in a different way, but even had the game gone his way it was only a matter of time before the beans got spilt.

I could be wrong but that's my two pennies worth.

In your mind, is there any scenario where Hans could be proven innocent? He cheated online when he was younger, part of it during the pandemic, which is a foolish thing to do indeed. Surely we can forgive him for that, given his youth. Nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. Who knows what his mental state was at the time. The extent of this online cheating we don't fully know about, but it seems it was in the past, prior to August 2020 according to Ken Regan. For many to insinuate or imply he is cheating OTB, even though there is no clear evidence at all to back this up - is a stretch of the imagination though. I haven't seen anything conclusive that would cause me to believe Hans was cheating in the last couple of years. Hans claims he was living out of a suitcase, consumed with chess 24/7. Perhaps he did actually improve his playing ability dramatically during that time. Is this not a legitimate thing that could happen? Why must he be labelled a serial cheater? Because we think Magnus thinks so? Is that a good enough reason?

I still think Magnus is being irresponsible in his actions. Magnus knew full well that Hans would suffer the wrath of trial by social media, following his withdrawal from the Sinquefield cup and subsequent message with the Mourinho clip. And his resignation on move two of this latest tournament just added fuel to the fire. If no evidence comes to light that Hans cheated OTB then we must assume he is innocent. Or is there no chance of rehabilitation? The 'once a cheater, always a cheater' view that eternally maligns his characters seems to be common place. Perhaps the perceived embarrassment that Magnus would suffer by admitting he was wrong about Hans will preclude him from doing that. This situation must not be allowed to continue indefinitely though, as it is ruining the reputation of chess. I want to see chess in the news for the right reasons, not these clickbait sensationalized articles about cheating and all the social media nonsense to go along with it. If Hans has not cheated at all in the last few years, since his admission of the chess.com cheating, then Magnus should admit he is wrong, and apologize for the damage done to Hans reputation - an indirect (direct!?) consequence of the actions of Magnus.

Maybe new evidence will be presented that will shed a different light on things. But until then we have to put up with the constant speculation, whispers, rumours, innuendo etc.

[Geoff Chandler]

Hi Keith,

I know from your facebooks post your feel quite strongly about this,
I'll tread carefully but give me a bit of room to add an opinion.

I think the after game interview from Hans helped Carlsen walk.
It starts with ''He [Carlsen] played poorly,' then came what sounded very much
like him calling Carlsen a prick then corrected himself.

Onto Carlsen was embarrassed for losing...the part about his opening prep.
Not content with this Hans then roped in a bunch of good GM's (the top 10)
by saying they had no ambition and were cashing in... Organisers should
review who gets into these tournaments to give the young a chance.

Not bad. Even me on a good day could not manage to rile a world champion,
a bunch of great players and telling organisers how to run their show.

I don't know about being put off about playing someone you suspect of cheating.
Online yes it is always flashing across your mind. But OTB from an experienced
player. That's a grey area. (and a new excuse for losing) We will have to wait
to hear what he says, if indeed he does elaborate further. (we might get another meme)

For now I'm with he had an off day crowd, that happens, it knocked back the chase
to 2900 and then came the interview. Something happened before Rd.4 was it
either Hans goes or I do. (pure speculation.) OTB cheating, an insulting interview, or a bit of both.

No way did Magnus walk out because he simply lost. It was not an impulsive move,
he had a whole night to calm down ...and watch that interview.

Carlsen quit and when asked about it our hero Hans just had to say;
'At least I got to beat him before left.'

But I'm old school, maybe this is how the young chess players carry on these days.

I still expect some kind of apology from Magnus at the end of the tournament.
If he comes out shooting from the hip then I'll go into hiding for a month.
I enjoy having fun with these incidents, but they are our incidents, chess
players, our in jokes. When the main media gets involved and anal beads is mentioned...

(I've not gone near that one for a cheap laugh, I honestly had to google those beads,
I truly had no idea what they were. I clicked on images, OOPS! I then deleted my history.)

[Keith Arkell]

It is and has been my opinion ever since this story broke that Carlsen is aware of very damning information. I have heard a story myself which it is hard not to believe given it's details, but which I am not at liberty to disclose. I think it likely that the top players are one by one becoming aware of such stories, and hence the changing of their stances.

I find it depressing that there is so much vitriol against the World Champion on social media. I have now banned it from my facebook wall along with unfounded conspiracy theories against Chess.com, the world leaders on anti-cheating with many brilliant minds employed.

On the subject of unfair-play detection Fabiano Caruana mentions that Ken Regan's methods simply do not work when it comes to intelligent cheating by GMs.

Don't forget who is the known cheat and who is the protester in all of this! And try to remember that Magnus had to be careful how he goes about dealing with the matter. He wants nothing more than a cleaner game and is, in the words of Caruana, risking his reputation to do so.

I think he made a mistake not pulling out of Sinquefield Cup at the beginning and he is probably regretting not doing so, but we are not trained in how best to deal with cheats, so give him a break!

In a similar situation Wesley So directly accused a GM called Petrosian, and was proved to be correct, but it is a risky business ,as absolute proof, even when we all know what's going on, as in the Rausis case , is hard to come by.

Things are clearly going in the right direction so let's just be patient and await further developments. The World Champion has been very busy lately playing the game he loves against honest opponents.

Edit, I just saw your post, Geoff. I understand your desire for everyone to be playing honestly, but I think most of what you have said has been trumped by Fabiano Caruana revealing yesterday that Magnus was in a quandary about whether to withdraw from the Sinquefield Cup when Niemann was brought is as a last minute sub. At that point Magnus was already sure in his mind that the guy is a cereal cheat, both online and OTB.

This info trumps all the nonsense about prep being leaked and Magnus withdrawing because he lost a game.

[Geoff Chandler]

Hi Kirk,

I'm with you for forgiving Hans, he has admitted it. It was wrong and it will
follow him around forever, there is no getting from that, his name will
crop up whenever in the future another cheating scandal hits the headlines.

And yes perhaps Magnus fully expected Regan to find something in Hans's OTB past.
And by the time he realised this was not the case he maintained his silence.

But as Keith says suspecting it it could or can affect your play, certainly in an online game.
OTB I don't know. What else can I say on that matter.
It's never crossed my mind that my OTB opponent was cheating.
(why should I. If you need a computer to beat me then you really are a bad player.)

Maybe if I thought my opponent was 'somehow' cheating It would put me off.
However knowing me I'd most likely think:
'OK you are getting moves from a computer...well I can beat that.'

[Kirk Gornall]

Hi Kirk,

I'm with you for forgiving Hans, he has admitted it. It was wrong and it will
follow him around forever, there is no getting from that, his name will
crop up whenever in the future another cheating scandal hits the headlines.

And yes perhaps Magnus fully expected Regan to find something in Hans's OTB past.
And by the time he realised this was not the case he maintained his silence.

But as Keith says suspecting it it could or can affect your play, certainly in an online game.
OTB I don't know. What else can I say on that matter.
It's never crossed my mind that my OTB opponent was cheating.
(why should I. If you need a computer to beat me then you really are a bad player.)

Maybe if I thought my opponent was 'somehow' cheating It would put me off.
However knowing me I'd most likely think:
'OK you are getting moves from a computer...well I can beat that.'

It certainly will haunt Hans for a long time I suspect.

If Carlsen is aware of very damning information then he needs to come out with a statement. And this esoteric club of top GMs with these 'stories', what is that all about? Why don't any of them come out public with them? Could it be that there is no actual evidence to prove them? Either there is proof that Hans cheated OTB or there isn't. We can't have all these unfounded suspicions festering in the background.

[Roger de Coverly]

Maybe new evidence will be presented that will shed a different light on things.

There seem to be some new evidence being uncovered or publicised. How well was it known that chess.com defaulted Max Dlugy in one of their Titled Tuesday tournaments when he would otherwise have won it with a clean sweep? Also that Hans had been a student at Dlugy's training academy.

[Kirk Gornall]

Maybe new evidence will be presented that will shed a different light on things.

There seem to be some new evidence being uncovered or publicised. How well was it known that chess.com defaulted Max Dlugy in one of their Titled Tuesday tournaments when he would otherwise have won it with a clean sweep? Also that Hans had been a student at Dlugy's training academy.

Even if Dlugy was cheating in Title Tuesday a few years ago (per the Bok video on YouTube), and Hans was his student, and also cheated online a few years ago, it still doesn't prove that Hans is cheating OTB presently or in the last two years. I don't know why some people are making this assumption - it is completely illogical unless evidence can be presented to prove otherwise. People can and do learn from their past mistakes and errors of judgement.

[Keith Arkell]

We can't have all these unfounded suspicions festering in the background.

Believe me, the story I know of if is certainly not unfounded. I am far too removed from the whole business to be permitted to say more though. And it is also not the responsibility of Caruana or any of the other top players who probably also know more by now to say anything. It is entirely in Magnus Carlsen's hands how he handles this, and he has strongly hinted that he will reveal more after he has completed his current tournament - perhaps after taking legal advice.

[Kirk Gornall]

We can't have all these unfounded suspicions festering in the background.

Believe me, the story I know of if is certainly not unfounded. I am far too removed from the whole business to be permitted to say more though. And it is also not the responsibility of Caruana or any of the other top players who probably also know more by now to say anything. It is entirely in Magnus Carlsen's hands how he handles this, and he has strongly hinted that he will reveal more after he has completed his current tournament - perhaps after taking legal advice.

I hope you are right Keith, because Magnus hasn't revealed anything tangible yet. He opened this Pandora's box and it's up to him to close it again!

[JustinHorton]

along with unfounded conspiracy theories against Chess.com, the world leaders on anti-cheating with many brilliant minds employed.

What does this actually mean though? In both senses, i.e. (a)what's the conspiracy theories and (b) what conclusion are we supposed to draw from your description of chessdotcom?

Geoff - take the line breaks out of your posts eh, you render them unreadable.

[Mick Norris]

We can't have all these unfounded suspicions festering in the background.

Believe me, the story I know of if is certainly not unfounded. I am far too removed from the whole business to be permitted to say more though. And it is also not the responsibility of Caruana or any of the other top players who probably also know more by now to say anything. It is entirely in Magnus Carlsen's hands how he handles this, and he has strongly hinted that he will reveal more after he has completed his current tournament - perhaps after taking legal advice.

Hi Keith

Presumably fairly recent though?

Chessdom story features a Giri tweet with Carlsen playing Niemann on a beach August 12

[Paul Heaton]

We can't have all these unfounded suspicions festering in the background.

Believe me, the story I know of if is certainly not unfounded. I am far too removed from the whole business to be permitted to say more though. And it is also not the responsibility of Caruana or any of the other top players who probably also know more by now to say anything. It is entirely in Magnus Carlsen's hands how he handles this, and he has strongly hinted that he will reveal more after he has completed his current tournament - perhaps after taking legal advice.

Hi Keith

Presumably fairly recent though?

Chessdom story features a Giri tweet with Carlsen playing Niemann on a beach August 12

Yes this was part of Caruana’s timeline, that Carlsen learned of information post this. However Caruana was adamant Carlsen saying Niemann was working with Max Dlugy was a big revelation, when the interviewer had to point out it is all over Dlugy’s website ( and also his Facebook page as well). Caruana seemed reluctant to believe this was not the scoop he thought it was.

So despite Caruana coming off very well in the interview, I wondered what else he was saying that a 2 second google search couldn’t discount was also duff information he’d been fed.